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Comment by fit2rule | Hacker News Reader

The more the UK slips down the hole of tyranny and fascism, the more despondent I become - even though I'm not a UK citizen.

The reason is, I just don't know of any way that the British people can claw their way back up out of this hole - their tyrannical government seems to be 10 steps ahead of every effort to reign it in.

So I feel like I'm witnessing, helplessly, the decline of the UK as a power, and as a nation of free peoples, and the despair comes from knowing that as time goes on, the likelihood of non-violent solutions to the oppression of the British people are ever-more unlikely.

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My initial response to the IPB was that, when I graduate from my UK university, I would simply move to some other European state and enjoy less pervasive surveillance.

However, after giving it more than a seconds thought, I realised most of my life I've had no reason to pursue a second language so I am limited to the anglosphere. In addition, 5 of the 6 anglosphere countries form the Five Eyes alliance, so my data would probably go back to the UK government no matter what.

In most European countries foreigners find it harder and harder to learn the local language because the locals tends to switch to English the moment they notice you stumble if you try to speak theirs. It's to the point it's annoying if you're travelling to practice another language.

Not speaking the local language would lock you out of certain types of jobs with language requirements, e.g. civil service jobs and customer facing roles typically, but depending on what you want to do they might not care at all.

But yes, leaving the UK to escape spying elsewhere in Europe wouldn't really achieve much.

Language shouldn't be a barrier, especially in western Europe. While people will appreciate it if you speak their language (and you should try to learn it), there are so many languages spoken across Europe that English is the default interchange language. And if I remember correctly, some German companies even require staff to speak English at work just so employees from different countries can all understand each other.

If you have the right to live & work in the EU, you're very lucky & years ahead of some of us. I've been learning German for 5 years & spent a lot of time looking into the EU Blue Card program.

>> "If you have the right to live & work in the EU"

This might not apply to UK citizens very much longer if the referendum vote goes the wrong way.

Don't Encourage the little Enganders to leave. If they are happy with their limited world, then so be it.

Welcome to Finland. We are so struck by americanism that English is practically the third national language here. (After Finnish and Swedish) We have lots of immigrants who don't bother learning Finnish because they don't have to. English is also the work language in many companies.

I'd guess it is way ahead of Swedish. I was over there on a business trip a couple months ago and I only met one person that spoke Swedish to the point where she could understand my Norwegian.

Everyone got English :)

It's the same here in Norway, we have multiple English speakers at work, and the working language is English in a lot of places.

Technically Finland is bilingual - but not in practice - except for the 5% Swedish speaking minority. Everyone is forced to learn Swedish at school starting from year 7 but obviously the results are poor since it's not optional and it's useless. I refuse to ever speak Swedish yet I was forced to learn it.

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> unlikely that your data is even being seen by an analyst

Of course not. Did you forget all of the automated analysis methods that are featured most days right here on HN? The analyst only gets involved at the end of the process.

This meme about the likelihood of being a target is shockingly naive; do you really believe the FVEY intelligence agencies somehow missed the rise of "Big Data"?

Way too trusting of government, are we?

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I think the Snowden revelations (and those of subsequent leakers) has shown that the reality is often far more radical than even the craziest of conspiracy theorists has dreamt up.

Its amazing how ill-informed the average UK citizen is about the Snowden revelations. It appears that the propaganda against Snowden has quite effectively resulted in people ignoring the facts he revealed.

Agreed. To be honest, with the exception of the The Guardian, it hardly even gets any column inches or air time on the news here.

That's rich.

This argument is flawed. Free democratic countries do not keep files on the private lives of all their citizens. It doesn't really matter what is done with the files. Their very existence creates a chilling effect which is not compatible with a free open democratic process.

To be fair, most people are more pragmatic than politically idealistic. To me, living in the UK remains, pragmatically, a more appealing notion than living in (almost) any other nation state I can think of. Even if there are shady things going on politically, pragmatically and factually one's life in the UK is less affected by government corruption than it would be in 90%+ of the world.

This is what you are supposed to think, but what do you do when the Government won't rid itself of pedophiles, for example? When it grants itself the power to censor any individual, for any reason whatever?

I think a big problem with the UK is that its people are comfortable with their ignorance. Would you agree?

I think a big problem with the UK is that its people are comfortable with their ignorance. Would you agree?

That's a human problem. At least the Brits are lucky enough to be ignorant about issues that rarely affect their daily lives.

When the majority of the world has government-induced issues like corrupt or racist judicial systems, conscription, violence, a lack of universal healthcare, the death penalty, a lack of food and water, disease, etc. it seems rather first world to talk about violent revolution in a country that's easily in the bottom quartile of countries that needs it.

Is this idealistic, positive talk? Certainly not, but do I feel "oppressed" by living in the UK rather than, say, Russia or the US? Heck no, I feel very lucky to live here and I know about the problems. Could it be better and should we always remain vigilant as voters? Definitely! :-)

>conscription

That one sounds like a weird one out there. Especially if you consider that the UK has (re)instated (and probably would in future) draft if the situation warrants.

The last time the UK had conscription was 56 years ago - even longer ago than capital punishment was taken off the books.

It would take an event of monumental proportions for conscription to be reinstated in modern British society.

"Look, over there! A worse situation! See! That could be you .. now tie this noose and get ready.."

Every government slides into tyranny. It is inevitable. The government can never on itself go back to being smaller/less powerful.

In france they increased the emergency for 3 more months. I will bet it will be increased again.

You need cataclysm to revert things - revolution or badly lost war.

The US held as long because it had been created intentionally weak. It needed Civil War and a World War to be able to consolidate its powers. The cold and war on terror suited just fine the power creep.

> Every government slides into tyranny.. It is inevitable.

That's why the constitutional framework on which a government was formed upon is very essential. And the strange thing is that America has the needed provisions in the constitution to prevent such tyrannical abuse in future. The Fourth Amendment[1] clearly states that:

> Amendment IV to the United States Constitution prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and requires any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.

So you see, the government is blatantly violating the fourth amendment by invading its citizens' privacy, but the point is that the constitution doesn't allow it and nor is it common for governments to do this thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United...

John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!

It's worrying how much mileage "think of the children" and counter-terrorism gets.

Well, today IDS has told us that the entire EU is a terrorist threat that we must be rid of, because the children. Also paedophiles.

He did that because the other side in the debate is claiming staying in is important for the same reasons.

And ISIS are both terrorist and pedophiles (what happens to Yazidi girls is not for the faint of heart).You can kiss all of your civil rights goodbye the moment there is ISIS inspired attack on british soil.

The worst thing is that though another government could be elected and clean up some of the mess, it wouldn't have time to undo 30 years of damage, and it wouldn't even try to make the desperately needed constitutional reforms to prevent more of this happening in future.

The UK has been declining as a power for the last 100 years..

Also most of this "tyranny" and "fascism" doesn't impact on the vast majority of the population, you probably care more than most of us do.

That is exactly the point. Your society is falling into the abyss, and none of you care. If you did care, it wouldn't be happening - the fact that you don't care, is precisely why its being allowed to happen.

"Fine by me if the English people are okay with being governed by pedophiles, pimps, war-mongers and criminals."

Actually, it isn't fine by me.

It impacts every one of us.

The problem is most are apathetic or ignorant of what is actually happening.

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