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Comment by jonesb6 | Hacker News Reader

Regardless to people's own position I think we can all agree that there is a lot of emotion, rhetoric, propaganda even, surrounding the refugee and migrant crises currently going on in Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa.

After speaking to a few colleagues in Europe, it makes me want to take a trip to Europe just to get an un-obfuscated picture of what's really going on.

Until then I'm going to try not to form particularly strong opinions on the matter.

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I don't know that you're going to gain much insight from a fact-finding trip to Europe in the capacity of a tourist. A lot of the problem is subterranean and lurks in the shadows of European society, away from the outward presentation layer visible to a visitor, and aggregate numbers are best understood by policymakers and experts.

When you get off the plane in Europe and amble around, you'll probably find nothing has superficially changed much from the last time you were there--assuming you've been before.

I probably misrepresented what my intentions are. I'm not actually going on a research trip, but I do intend to visit Europe soonish, and hope to get a better understanding of what is going mainly by talking to locals etc.

The problem is that except for a handful of people who have direct contact, the locals are not really any more informed than others. As an European, I knew many people who had strong opinions on the consequences of accepting Syrian refugees, before the first families had even arrived.

TV and social media, not personal experience, shape most of the opinions.

Yep and those opinions are amplified by right wing warmongering and the under belly short term anti-solutions that the loudest shouters on tv, facebook and youtube etc have.

That's true for the opinions against accepting refugees, but there's also plenty of people who find ridiculous the mere suggestion that it may cause problems.

I support the acceptance on principle, but I'm certainly not sure of the consequences, good or bad.

Yes it should be far more open but Brussels knows that if it is an open discussion no one will get in in the meantime. Of course it causes issues but letting people suffer is still something we need to help with. The problem is so incredibly complex that a solution will take a long time and in the meanwhile we will just have to make due. It will probably explode though; too many on/off people who are just angry and have no ideas but war and anger to throw in. A lot of them afraid of losing their benefits because the migrants took 'm. I thought this translates well to the news here; http://imgur.com/a/XxLWO

Edit: yes I am aware of the meme dislike here but this one hits home imho

Its incredible how SJWs have done their best to paint anyone who points out the obvious problems associated with mass migration (particularly people from an intolerant, sexist culture) as the problem.

When political correctness appears, logic and reason disappears out the window.

That's the thing - there are no obvious problems. It's very far from obvious how this will play out.

For example, regarding the "intolerant, sexist culture" you allude to. It's easy to paint the middle east in broad strokes, but that misses crucial differences between countries and peoples, particularly as those countries were often Western inventions made by grouping disparate regions and populations.

For example, did you know that in 2010 (before even the first conflict against Bashar al-Assad), there were over 150 thousand Syrians in the US alone?

Do you talk to people where you live now about their views on refugees and immigration? The views in Europe will be very similar to those.

In either place, you will find people critical of refugees or sympathetic to their plight.

Europe is a very big place, with lots of countries and regions and cities and villages.

My take is that the great majority of people in Europe (as a whole) only see or hear about refugees in the television, in the news, and in the internet, just like everybody else in the world.

Of course (and just like everybody else in the world) that doesn't deter them from forming a very strong opinion about the subject, to express it very loudly in the internet and to fall prey to their local politicians using the crisis for their personal benefit (no matter what side of the divide they fall).

Just like you I won't form a strong opinion on the matter and I suggest you not to try give it much thought either. It is a very serious and complicated problem but there is a great change that the people who can help is already doing it and, as for the rest of the population, it is more likely their involvement will only hinder and cloud the matter even more.

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