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Comment by spinchange | Hacker News Reader

I don't think it was nearly as clear back then that this is how things would play out. Sun still controlled its own destiny when Android was nascent and it's my understanding that while Sun wasn't exactly thrilled about them building on Apache Harmony / Dalvik, etc., they weren't going to sue them over it either. Motorola on the other hand was literally telling Google and Wall Street that they were ready to go nuclear on other Android ODMs if someone didn't make them an offer (because their actual operating business wasn't cutting it anymore)

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Sun wanted to sue, but lacked the money to do so.

Check the blogs of some ex-employees like Gosling.

The perspective in Sun was not unanimous. Frankly, I'll take Jonathan Schwartz' blog (CEO) over Gosling's.

So it is that time of the year again for me to quote Gosling:

"We were all really disturbed, even Jonathan: he just decided to put on a happy face and tried to turn lemons into lemonade, which annoyed a lot of folks at Sun."

Source: http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/my_attitude_on_oracle...

But believe on whatever Google sells.

Are we playing dueling quotes?

He is what Jonathan had to say for himself:

"I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of others from Sun in offering my heartfelt congratulations to Google on the announcement of their new Java/Linux phone platform, Android. Congratulations!"

source: http://web.archive.org/web/20101023072550/http://blogs.sun.c...

>But believe on whatever Google sells

Because if I disagree with you, I must be drinking Google's coolaid, right?

Edit: before you say the quote was part of "putting on a happy face", maybe have a look at what he had to say when he was called as Google's witness in Oracle v Google. It is also telling that he was called in by Google, rather than Oracle.

> Because if I disagree with you, I must be drinking Google's coolaid, right?

Well on HN, it seems Google cannot do no wrong and Oracle is the devil, regardless of them both being corporations and not really persons.

> before you say the quote was part of "putting on a happy face", maybe have a look at what he had to say when he was called as Google's witness in Oracle v Google. It is also telling that he was called in by Google, rather than Oracle.

1 - Yes it was part of "putting on a happy face"

2 - Usually when one gets called to the court, it is not easy to say no, regardless which side puts your name on. So Google lawyers just were faster than Oracle's.

3 - Ah but he testified on court. Well, having been born in a country just getting of dictatorship and where corruption is part of daily life, I don't believe people always "tell the truth and only the truth" when at court.

The fact is that Google forked and frozed the Java eco-system.

Now in 2016 we are stuck with a Java 6 and a half, with no future in sight for newer versions. With the community coming up with hacks to try to use newer language features.

Java 9 and 10+ will bring major language features making it even worse to keep Java applications portable between the real Java and Android Java.

Google just managed to do what Microsoft failed at, and yet Google gets the brownie points.

So no matter what evidence he shows to the contrary, you won't believe it because you can't trust anything. Except the pieces of info that agree with your theory. Gotcha.

Specially when former employees have reported another view of what happened.

I know being on Oracle side doesn't buy friends on HN.

You'll note Schwartz's quote sounds like any other corporate PR-speak when companies partner up and in no way constitutes the grant of a license. The thing then was that Sun still had hopes of getting Google to license Java without a lawsuit, simply because they couldn't afford one a they circled the drain. There are other accounts from people at Sun that corroborate that account. Nobody at Sun, including Schwartz, as incompetent as he was, liked what Google was doing.

Yeah, Google tried the "Schwartz said it's OK" defense during their trial, even putting him on the stand. Nobody bought it. That is the most telling thing of all.

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