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Comment by bnastic | Hacker News Reader

Anecdotal evidence and total sample of one person using actively both platforms, but I don't find many (or any, so far) apps for Android that I would consider buying. I have downloaded roughly the same number of apps on both phones, but I only ever bought iPhone and iPad apps (mostly from iOS-only developers, like OmniGroup). Is that just the part of platform identity, or overall software quality? Discovery issue, or reliance on well known software names before purchashing? I don't know, but I find I rely on Firefox on Android for mostly everything I do on that platform (excluding free communication apps), while iOS is far more varied.

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There's a lot of apps and choice on Android where you can use a free or ad supported app, while on the App Store there's simply only a paid solution. The lack of a "trial" or 15 minutes refund window was also annoying on iOS. That's perhaps also why there's more revenue generated.

I just switched back to Android from iOS after 8 months and noticed this first hand.

Oh man I'd love a 15 min refund window. So many apps I've bought only to discover five minutes into using them that I was duped by glossy marketing, but because the price was $4.99 or whatever it's just not worth arguing over it. I'm dreading to know the aggregate though..

If you'd love a 15 minute refund window, I wonder how you feel about the current Google Play refund window (2 hours).

See: http://www.androidcentral.com/google-play-support-page-confi...

Jesus. That is a terrible play and pushes devs away from the ecosystem. 2 hours only serves to hurt developers.

And 15 minutes?

I hope you're not arguing against any refund window at all. One can legitimately debate whether an appropriate window is 15 minutes, 2 hours, or a day but you should absolutely be able to get a refund if the program is unsatisfactory. Personally, it seems as if I might want more than 15 minutes to play around with a complex app, maybe going through a tutorial, etc. before deciding it doesn't work for me. If a developer is dependent on users not having a real chance to try out their app before paying their money, they should probably try to either improve their designs or take up another line of work.

2 hours is a preposterous amount of time for a "no-questions asked" return policy. No wonder devs don't put any effort in on the Play Store!

If an application can't deliver more than 2 hours of value, maybe it's not worth very much. It's not a movie. FWIW, the Apple app store doesn't have a formal time limit but you have to provide a reason.

Wow, what an entitled position to have.

You still haven't stated the reason for this claim. What's about "preposterous" for a 2 hours refund window ? Customer can fully test the app in those 2 hours and see if it fits him or not.

The problem isn't just the in money with the "it's only a buck or two for the app". You're trying to find an app you'll invest not just money, but time and your data. On iOS with this model it means you can spend 20-30$ for 5 different candidate apps and then choose one - or even find out you don't like any of them.

Now repeat this process for different types of apps that aren't multi-platform.

Actually, Google offers a way bigger refund window. 2 hours is just the "no hassle" refund that the user can ask for by just tapping the 'refund' button in the app page. After this s/he can always (in theory) email the developer and ask for a refund since the dev can always issue a refund from the Payments Merchant Center [1]. It's essentially left up to the developer to create its own refund policy after the mandatory 2 hours. In my case, the request it's very unusual so I always issue one when asked (users have never taken more than a day to ask for one). Assuming the buyer knows this, what would be considered a reasonable time frame after which this kind of requests can be denied?

[1] https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...

There's another way to request the refund out of the refund window without messaging the developer [1]. Although I'm sure you can't do it indefinitely. The main gist is that Google covers the refunds after 48 hours :

"After 48 hours, Google bears the cost of the refund, which protects developers from retroactive negative earnings. In this case, the apps remain available in the user's library indefinitely. Lest you should think this is a loophole to get free paid apps forever, Google tells us it has mechanisms in place to prevent abuse. The company declined to elaborate on what those mechanisms were, but it likely has something to do with the amount and frequency of refund requests."

[1] http://www.androidpolice.com/2014/05/16/google-quietly-imple...

Interesting, I may have to ask Google this but does that mean that if I refund after 48hrs from the Merchant Center do they still bear the cost of the refund?

I don't much see the point of a longer window than 15-30 min, to be honest. There are very few times when I've had to evaluate a mobile app for more than 5-10 minutes to decide whether or not it was worth the price of admission. A 15-30 minute window is a good compromise to trials, since it weeds out the folks who were never going to pay for the app anyway and doesn't require any significant risk on the side of the developer. No need to spend resources on developing special trial versions, and little risk that people will try the app, get the value out of it, then immediately refund. (Games with limited time of play, short stories, that kind of thing.)

Refunds post the window (but probably within some other window, like 30-90 days or so) should probably still be possible, but I'd be ok with those kinds of refunds requiring a higher barrier to entry – even if it is just filling out some forms. Plenty of apps I've paid for have gone the way of crappy updates you can't downgrade from, bringing bugs and what not along the way. I'd love to get a refund to those since I effectively can't use them anymore. It'd be an incentive for developers to not alienate current customers. Although, maybe paid upgrades would be a better solution to be honest.

I see (and get) lots of apps which are free, with limitations so that you can decide whether to buy the in-app purchase - which is effectively "the app". And I see full-featured ad-supported apps with an IAP to end the ads too.

True, those aren't time-limited trials; they're in effect feature-limited trials and pleasure-limited (annoyance-added) trials.

I guess this is not well known, but in practice it's possible to get a refund on any iOS/Mac app purchased from the App Store simply by writing App Store support and asking for one.

There's even a more direct option using iTunes or on the web: http://www.imore.com/how-to-get-refund-itunes-app-store

It worked on a dodgy TV tracking app I got.

Right. And there's no time limit as far as I know.

Actually there is, three months from the date of purchase.

Apple "report a problem website" states it at login : "To report a problem with iTunes, iBooks Store, iOS, or Mac App Store purchases made in the last 90 days, sign in with your Apple ID. For help with older purchases, contact iTunes Store Support."

So I guess there's no limit with contacting support option as you said.

More anecdotal info but I've just started using my first android device this month and I feel like the store is far more inspiring and enticing.

I suspect the revenue difference is going come down to class of user and disposable income.

I made the switch to iPhones a year ago (although I'm still mainly an Android developer) and can agree somewhat with your statement.

I rarely bought anything from the Google Play Store but I'm pretty sure this is due to the fact that on Android there is almost ALWAYS a free alternative for whatever you need.

On iOS not so much, even the crappiest app will cost you something.

But on the other hand I would do the same. iOS users are willing to spend more money on mobile apps/services which is also the reason why they buy expensive high end phones in the first place instead of buying a 50$ Android phone.

> even the crappiest app will cost you something.

isn't that a sign that competition in a more open platform makes for a better market for the consumer? And that paying for software is a thing of the past, and that other revenue models needs to be thought up.

Games have already made the transition, mainly due to the way they raced to the bottom and high cost of production, but i suspect utility apps will follow suit very soon.

IMHO they did. They serve ads and make often more money than if they would sell the app for a reasonable price. You even see this on Windows applications, like qTorrent which imo really sucks, but thats exactly what you get from expecting free software.

> ... on Android there is almost ALWAYS a free alternative...

This is key. I don't mind paying for apps, but if I can find a free (beer/libre) one (such as on F-DROID), I'll go for that first.

Yeah, as an android user with a high end phone, I have no problem paying for apps, even (relatively) more costly ones. Offhand I can think of torque pro and tasker that I've purchased, and a bunch more that I can't think of. The reason I don't buy more is there is almost always a free or ad supported version of the apps, so I only buy ones that have functionality that I can't get for free, which is rare.

Many of the apps I've purchased for my Android phones over the years had a lite or ad-supported version for free and then a full version for purchase. I like being able to try something out first and when I have the option, I'm actually much more likely to pay for the full version. Ad-supported stuff is only good for testing out an app because they're annoying and obtrusive but I can understand having them in free/demo versions. If the only thing that sucks about a useful app is the ads, I'll gladly pay to get rid of them.

Then there's the demo stuff where you pay to unlock extended features. Sometimes I don't necessarily need those (like on the Hue Pro app or Nova Launcher) but when I use something daily and it's $1.99 to get the full version, I tend to buy "pro" more often than not. It's more a matter of maybe wanting the extra functionality or wanting to support the dev than about necessity in most cases but it definitely beats having to buy something only to find out it's crap.

If anything, the only reason I skip an app entirely is because I can't find enough trusted info to convince me it's something I want and there's no free version to test out first. Only for trusted devs and well-known and thoroughly reviewed apps do I tend to buy without a trial/demo first.

My favorite thing about free android apps is how so many demand access to contacts and location (and sometimes microphone and camera!) despite never really needing them to work. Since most people have no idea how to deal with this, they are paying a much heavier price for those free apps than they think. At least the newer android versions let you revoke these permissions, but given the state of android version deployment, it seems likely the vast majority of android users are giving quite a lot of personal information away to quite a few people.

It was not the sole reason I moved away from android but it definitely helped me make the decision.

There's another way to view that...

On Android, you expect high quality for free.

On iPhone, you expect that to achieve high quality, you have to pay for it.

I don't experience that iOS is "more varied." Maybe it is. Sounds pretty subjective.

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