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Comment by enjo | Hacker News Reader

I always ask drivers which one they prefer to drive for. The answer is always Lyft.

My findings are the same. Lyft made a switch to giving them the money for rides immediately too....Uber makes them wait.

And Lyft lets you tip your driver.

Horrible. For me the absolute #1 feature of these apps was not having to think about the stupid tipping economy. Officially charge a more expensive base fare, hell make it 2x, I don't care; but turn it into a social poker game where increasingly there are a set of unwritten rules about what you're "supposed" to pay, and I just want to find the first alternative out there.

As an European I find it horribly annoying to have to tip in the US. If I do not like the the food I still have to tip because otherwise the nice waiter gets nothing? Or is that old information? Or was it always a lie? I only want to tip when I really like something, not as a kind of guilt trip with an unwritten minimum. Wish they would change that.

American server here. Yeah, if I provide shitty service, you shouldn't have to tip me. Personally, as someone who has served and has gotten paid less than 'minimum wage' (service industry is different in some states), even if I'm the one getting shitty service, I leave 2-3 dollars on a $60 bill. I understand shitty days and putting up with hungry people. But it definitely is a culturally economic thing too. So if someone provides excellent service, or I see them as an extremely hard worker toward the guests around me, I leave them extra. Although I definitely agree that the tip should be included in the menu items and servers should be paid more than $15 (min wage is $9 where I live) in the more populated cities.

> If I do not like the the food I still have to tip because otherwise the nice waiter gets nothing?

I actually don't think your parent was asking about shitty service, I think they were asking about if the service was good but the food itself was bad, in which case yes, they should still tip, right? Which I guess could seem unfortunate but that doesn't seem worse than no-tipping systems for that case, so.

Tipping makes full service restaurants a pain to visit and as a result I'm more likely to visit places where tipping is not expected.

Restaurant complaint etiquette:

Bad food---> Ask to see a manager and complain, leave appropriate tip (20%).

Bad service---> leave little or no tip.

Long wait for food---->If server says nothing, leave little or no tip. If server apologizes and says they're having issues in the kitchen ask to talk to manager and leave an appropriate tip.

Lyft has gotten much better. From heavy usage in San Francisco, my anecdata shows that tipping in Lyfts is not expected.

Drivers are reasonably paid without the tip (as opposed to, say, waiters) so you really can just tip for exceptional service.

My math, as a driver with 1k+ rides, says otherwise. I average roughly $5-6/hr after taxes and expenses.

Arguably that's a bad thing for the customer though.

I appreciated that Uber eliminated tipping. But from reading driver forums, it seems like Uber drivers increasingly expect a cash tip, and retaliate against passengers who don't tip by assigning low ratings.

[1] http://uberpeople.net/threads/no-need-to-tip-policy.42850/

[2] http://uberpeople.net/threads/5-rides-are-for-pax-that-tip.4...

[3] http://uberpeople.net/threads/3-stars-for-no-tip-backfired.5...

[4] http://nypost.com/2015/08/12/does-your-uber-driver-expect-a-...

Despite the seemingly representative anecdote in your last link, I'm very hesitant to believe that most Uber drivers in San Francisco expect a cash tip. This hesitance is based primarily on the fact that I have never heard of tipping with cash, and I know very few (if any) people here that routinely carry cash, especially small bills. But perhaps the practice really is more common and expected in other demographics, like tourists.

Fascinating! How are you supposed to figure this out?

You're not. The vast majority of Uber riders never tip and it's just ridiculously greedy propaganda from Uber drivers that you should.

Wait, some drivers give passengers bad ratings if they don't tip?

Not sure how that is supposed to help them get tips in the future when the vast majority of passengers don't know their own rating number and probably aren't even aware that such a number even exists.

I would assume it's so future drivers see the bad rating and, while not knowing the underlying reason, will give preference to someone with higher rating(more likely to tip).

Yes

I disagree. The situation with Uber is this "well, should I tip in cash?" limbo. I've seen a bunch of articles recently about how some travelers are shocked to learn they have a less than 5 star rating from Uber drivers because they don't tip.

> The situation with Uber is this "well, should I tip in cash?" limbo.

No, just refuse to tip. It's not built in to the app because tipping is a stupid practice which needs to die.

Drivers, of course, like tips. Of course they're going to push a narrative that you need to tip. Everyone answers yes when you ask if they'd like to get paid more.

That doesn't mean you ever need to tip. Tipping is a stupid practice which needs to die, and Uber is helping to kill it. I've never tipped in Uber and I've also never had trouble getting a ride.

Not if by that way they ensure better behavior from the driver.

But now you're paying more than the competition just to have a better driver. Also the driver can rate the person who took the car lower if they don't tip. So the tip essentially becomes a way to extort one another.

>But now you're paying more than the competition just to have a better driver.

Why use the word "just"? I'm paying more than the competition TO get a better driver.

In fact I don't even have to pay (the tip) if I don't want to. I still get a better driver, because they try to get me to tip.

>Also the driver can rate the person who took the car lower if they don't tip. So the tip essentially becomes a way to extort one another.

Well, that's easy to solve: don't allow drivers to rate passengers.

> In fact I don't even have to pay (the tip) if I don't want to. I still get a better driver, because they try to get me to tip.

You'll begin to get the reputation that you don't tip. Why would anyone pick you up then? You're essentially forced to tip if you want continued, good service.

> Well, that's easy to solve: don't allow drivers to rate passengers.

That's not a solution though; that's a hack to remove an undesirable affect from another feature (tipping). Just like drivers can be rated by passengers the inverse is also very important. These are still people's private cars after all; do you really want no way to rate the guy who trashes someone's car or is just an asshat?

In my experience (SF) it's the opposite -- drivers like that Uber gives them more dispatches

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