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Comment by eridius | Hacker News Reader

> A tip is fully extra incentive

No, it's not. I agree completely that it would be great if we could get rid of tipping and actually pay waiters (and all other tipped professions) an appropriate salary. But they don't get paid an appropriate salary. Tipping is not extra incentive, tipping is their salary. If you don't tip, you're literally expecting someone to serve you for somewhere around $2-$3 an hour.

> This sounds kinda close to a personal attack.

Why, are you the kind of person who threatens to withhold tips from waiters? Well actually, given your previous paragraph, it sounds like you are that kind of person.

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> If you don't tip, you're literally expecting someone to serve you for somewhere around $2-$3 an hour.

That is not the issue of the customer, and in no way is the customer even responsible for that.

Complain to the business owner raking in profits, not to the customer.

Still makes the customer a shitty person.

I’d argue it makes the employer a shitty person, first and foremost. The customer is still an impolite person, but in second place.

There are countries where employees don’t have to rely on donations to be able to pay their bills, showing that it doesn’t have to be this way.

How so?

> If you don't tip, you're literally expecting someone to serve you for somewhere around $2-$3 an hour.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't restaurants supposed to pay waiters the difference if they make less than minimum wage in tips?

Waiters are expected to make over minimum wage once tips are included. Yes, if they don't reach minimum wages, then legally they're supposed to be paid the difference (though there's a vast gulf between "should" and "does", especially in a job like this where speaking up likely means getting fired). But assuming that the waiter is already reaching minimum wage this month, then refusing to tip means that the waiter is only earning $2-$3 per hour for the time spent serving you.

Also, being a waiter is absolutely a job that should pay over minimum wage, so if your argument is "but at least they're making minimum wage", you're still significantly under-valuing your waiter's work. Being a waiter is hard work.

> But assuming that the waiter is already reaching minimum wage this month, then refusing to tip means that the waiter is only earning $2-$3 per hour for the time spent serving you.

They cannot very well be earning less than minimum wage per hour if they already have gotten more or equal to minimum wage for the month in tips. Do you mean they are earning only $x per hour over minimum wage for serving you?

There is a canyon of difference between what is "supposed to" happen, and what does. And before you bring up suing or reporting or anything like that, know that those activities usually require time and money that the employee probably does not have, and will likely cause them to not continue at their job, and through rumors spread through the industry, might cause them to not be able to find another one.

Be that as it may, it is hardly reasonable that the customer bear the onus of any illegal conduct by the restaurant.

The problem is that the anger over the employer's illegal actions is now being directed to the customer. This makes it easier for the employer to get away with this because they can shield themselves better by focusing on the customers who don't tip.

Waiters are supposed to make more than minimum wage anyway. Any waiter that has to worry about whether their employer will screw them over if they earn less is already being significantly screwed over by customers.

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