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Comment by rms | Hacker News Reader

>And, boy, was I hungry at first. After a while I wasn't hungry any more...

That's the real secret, and it could use some expansion. Isn't that where 99% of dieters fail? Why were you able to overcome your hunger when so many people find that an impossible challenge?

People have a great deal of difficulty overcoming that feeling of hunger -- realizing that just because they feel something, they don't have to act on it. I've jokingly considered writing a diet book focused on this concept; apparently diet books are the only types of books that consistently make money.

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The Atkin's theory, which I believe has been largely substantiated, is that carbohydrates (sugar, HFCS) do not satisfy hunger, they tend to trigger hunger.

John cut out the sugar and his hunger dropped. FWIIW, my experience was the same and there are many others who echo this.

See "Sugar: The Bitter Truth" (UCSF lecture) which goes into detail on the metabolism of carbohydrates, especially HFCS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM and discussed on HN: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1006980

One of many references: http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/riskfactors/a/lofatlocarb_2...

Yes, I understand a lot of the science behind hunger. For most failed dieters, it is not enough. Even reduced hunger is too much to overcome for most people that want to lose weight.

People still need some psychological willpower to overcome the urge the eat food, and how to increase that willpower is mostly never explained.

Amazing lecture on sugar, I highly highly recommend it.

You have to say specifically "carbohydrate" and not single out sugar. People try to make this false distinction between "complex" and simple carbohydrates and sugar. ANY starch is broken down rapidly in the small intestine and absorbed as sugar.

ANY starch is broken down rapidly in the small intestine and absorbed as sugar.

That may be an oversimplification. Lustig, in the lecture mentioned by the GP, shows that there are big differences between how the body metabolizes glucose and fructose. If these differences are significant enough (Lustig's thesis is that they are), then it isn't a "false distinction" to single out sugar/HFCS from other carbohydrates.

He's talking about the uniquely hepatoxic properties of fructose vis-a-vis other sugars. I'm talking about the metabolism damaging insulin responses triggered by all carbohydrates, regardless of whether it's a piece of whole grain bread or a spoonful of honey (fructose).

Why were you able to overcome your hunger when so many people find that an impossible challenge?

1. I drank ice cold water whenever I felt hungry.

2. Initially I would look at that photo of me.

3. Later I looked at the chart and the predicted end date.

The very first signs of "feeling" hungry usually means you're thirsty for water, not hungry for food. A lot of people eat instead of drink (or drink something with calories), and that helps increase their calorie consumption leading to weight gain.

I've found keeping a bottle of water on me at all times works well. Whenever I start to feel my mouth go dry I drink some. I catch thirst this way before I even begin to feel thirsty. It's like lubrication for your body. If you don't drink enough of it, things seize up (you'll feel tired, get headaches, hampers athletic performance, etc...).

CamelBak makes some very nice bottles. Sports Authority/Dick's Sporting Goods usually carry them: http://www.amazon.com/CamelBak-BPA-Free-Choose-Re-Use-Better...

Nathan also makes a good one: http://www.amazon.com/Nathan-500-ml-Bottle-Straw-Royal/dp/B0...

Buy like two or three of them. Fill them up in the morning and put them in a fridge. Keep one by your side at all times. Once it's empty, grab another from your fridge, drink as needed, repeat.

Keeping the water "ice cold" is important too. It's so much easier to drink cool water than warm. Probably something derived from evolution where humans had better luck drinking cold water from a running stream than warm water from a sitting puddle from a rain storm. I always throw a few ice cubes in once I pull a bottle out of the fridge.

I also read the Hacker's Diet, but I went to a doctor-controlled diet, and lost about 34 pounds so far (15 kg), in two months (not 6 months).

It's fairly similar to what John advocates actually :) - it's eating WAY less, slower, and mostly vegetables (the main thing about this diet was that the clinic provides the food so you can't overeat).

And yes, I was very hungry at first, what I did was drink lots of soup (the instant-soup type, there are some "light" versions by Knorr over here), and yoghurt (also "light").

I didn't eliminate sodas, I replaced them with diet versions (doctor said they were OK for diet purposes).

PD: as another poster said, NO SUGARS, no flour (that means no bread, etc.. . that part is hard!) and no butter and other dairies except for yoghurt.

Instant soup is dangerous because it has lots of sodium.

Wow, it's true, and you're right (just checked the back of a package).

The one I just checked has 600 mg of Sodium per serving (25% of the recommended daily value). No wonder they are tasty.

Still, they did help me get through hungry spells :)

Sodium is not that bad for you unless you have a specific health issue. Our bodies are amazing regulators and can handle sodium just fine.

I've seen some recent news associating low sodium with a possible link to depression. I don't have a news source URL at hand to cite, much less an actual study, but I'm keeping an subconscious eye open for more information.

Cottage cheese is definitely an OK dairy for weight loss!

> no butter and other dairies except for yoghurt

Nonsense. I'm 8% body fat and eat loads of butter (almost a stick a day) and whole fat yogurt. I don't exercise that much either. Dairy fat is one of the best possible foods. Excellent satiety and virtually no insulin response.

Well that's what my (doctor-made) diet involves. I didn't make the rules, believe me, I'd like to have some butter :)

I've heard good things about Atkins and such, so maybe butter isn't that bad, but I'm losing quite a lot of weight without butter, so without butter it will be.

I usually see an encouraging initial weight loss followed by a slow climb back up after a period of stability. The article contains some advice on how he eats less - smaller meals not fewer and eat slowly. I think that could work. I'd like to see how long he's kept the weight off for.

I find distraction a very simple method. When I'm absorbed in a problem, I can go the better part of a day without eating. Often then, when I finally eat, it's because the lack of food / nutrients is starting to significantly hamper my thinking and focus. But it takes (this well/overfed U.S. resident) some time to reach that point.

The problem is to keep this mode of life up for a sustained period of time.

I also tend to lose significant weight while on vacation. This is usually because my vacations involve: 1) Intense, extended interaction with people (very occupying, if "distracting" is perhaps not the best word to use re social company) in non-food settings; 2) A lot of traveling and getting around from one novel place to another, again very occupying and without much of a food context.

I guess I could add that vacations for me involve very little TV.

Finally, as an aside, I've remained a fan of "TV host" Craig Ferguson's simple comment on the topic: "Eat less, move around more." I realize that it's not that simple for everybody, but for a fair number of people -- myself included -- it is. And his phrase, especially delivered in his accent and trademark combination of absurd and serious, is very memorable. This makes it useful to me on an ad hoc, day to day basis.

>>And, boy, was I hungry at first.

>That's the real secret, and it could use some expansion

Spending time hungry is totally unnecessary to achieve low body fat. It's about insulin management.

If you eat a high saturated fat diet you simply don't get the strong hunger pangs that are symptomatic of crashing blood sugar with a metabolism trained to run on sugar in preference to fatty acids.

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