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Comment by xendo | Hacker News Reader

I think you are looking for T460p http://www.anandtech.com/show/9889/lenovo-refreshes-thinkpad...

Thanks for the pointer.

It looks promising, except for the keyboard layout. WTF http://images.anandtech.com/doci/9889/T460.jpg

Can we please go back to IBM designed keyboard layout. The T410 had a very good keyboard, I want to keep such an layout :(

I want my keys grouped together not such a mess. The F1-4, F5-F8, F7-F12 keys should be grouped. The Del, Home, Page Up/Down keys should be grouped. I want to be productive, not look at the keyboard the whole time...

Edit: The T410 keyboard looked like this: http://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-blhknq8/product_images/images/...

I really don't understand what is their logic when they place a full Print Screen key (which I use 10 times a year at most) right between the Alt and Ctrl but the arrow keys are smaller and crowded and Home and End (which I use every time I edit something) are not even on the keyboard (or maybe there is some unhandy Fn+ shortcut?). WTF ? I got used to Sony Vaio which has full arrow keys and a smaller shift and an additional column of keys "Del, Home, PgUp, PgDown and End and now they discontinued the brand... I'm doomed. http://postimg.org/image/yt3kpzarx/

F12 home end insert del, right there on the top row. I'd much rather them be function keys on the left/home right/end arrow keys.

Someone really needs to figure out a sleek backlit fixed size keyboard area for everyone to have their own keyboard custom printed. I wouldn't even want an insert key.

Crap-sized enter is a deal breaker too.

I use the Insert key a lot. Shift-Insert and Ctrl-Insert for cut and paste work well with Cygwin. They also work for some programs like Orcad for entry boxes where Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V don't.

You can remap Print Screen (or any key really) to anything you want in software.

Home and End... Have you seen this keyboard? They're in the top right corner.

Page Up/Down near the arrow keys is really nice.

They were not visible in the image posted by frik. I see them now. PgUp/Down are nice if they are "wherever you are used to look for them" but for some unknown reasons most brands keep making changes to the layout with every model. Another irritating trend is to make the touch pad unnecessarily big while the keyboard is crowded and pushed so close to the screen that you cover the lower part of it with your hands when you type.

"but for some unknown reasons most brands keep making changes to the layout with every model"

The thinkpad keyboard layout has been consistent as of late. The T460(s) keyboard layout is the same as the T450(s) keyboard, which is the same as the T440(s) layout, which is almost the same as the T430(s) layout with minor differences in the function keys.

These thinkpads are not an example of a brand changing the layout every model.

The function keys are grouped! Hard to see on the photo, but on my X240 they're grouped: Esc-F1-F4, F5-F7, F9-F12, Home-End-Delete.

I have a W530 and it looks very similar to this layout (Return key is over 2 rows though).

Usually, European keyboards have the weirdly shaped enter/return key that's over 2 rows, and US keyboards have a single-row return key.

That "weirdly shaped enter/return key" is an ISO standard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_9995

Thank you for that link.

Now to convince management that a 3yo lowish T520 with a ~half-dead~ battery and constant thermal problems isn't exactly the best gear for your developers.. But at least I got time until February, until the T460p ships :)

Honestly I'd rather a t520 over this new Dell i7 e7450 latitude they have our developers using. The keyboard has... Fn key Home and End keys! Maximum cringe.

You can invert that in the bios.

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