Hacker News Reader

Comment by eliteraspberrie | Hacker News Reader

He said on Twitter that police beat him up once, and then a second time after following him home. I hope there is a real investigation, this is enraging.

View on HN

In the UK, which is a common law country, the local coroner would be involved with any death that was not expected (i.e. not an older person or someone who is terminally ill and under medical care) or in which there are suspicious circumstances. That process may involve a police investigation and, independently of that, there can be an inquest. Inquests have quite a history in the case of deaths in police custody in the UK, as a result of police action, or where there is some doubt about the probity of the police investigation (Google Hillsborough Stadium, Mark Duggan, Ian Tomlinson).

I'd appreciate if any US residents can comment on the procedures locally and I realise that procedure may vary in different states.

My first thought was 'another cancer death' but it appears to be more involved. The phrasing of the request from the family suggests to me that the situation may be more complex. I was reading this guy's blog just yesterday, odd times.

A suicide or homicide will almost certainly trigger a post-mortem. In the US the quality of the process varies widely by state. Some states have medical examiners, who are appointed and generally expert clinicians. Other states have a coroner system where the coroner is an elected position. Unsurprisingly states where the latter is true tend to have worse results.

The situation is often worse that that. The suicide to whom I was most closely related wasn't investigated by anyone. (Self-inflicted GSW, but still...) A medical examiner's assistant pronounced the death, then left and was never seen again. (Later the funeral home people arrived.) The medical examiner for our county lives 70 miles away and basically never comes to the county. When later we had to prove certain circumstances to certain parties, we were hampered by the fact that not only was there no completed paperwork, but no one could be found whose responsibility it is to complete paperwork. An actual coroner would be a big improvement in this county, but apparently that's an expense we can't afford.

Can the coroner do anything with legal force, or only inspect the body and file a report?

Yes, a whitewash would never happen in the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Inquiry

Yes, I should have said 'inquests can give people another avenue in some cases'. And I should also have pointed out that the process can sometimes be very complex and take decades [1].

I wasn't trying to claim any kind of superiority for the system as operated in England/Wales. I was wondering aloud about what is supposed to happen in US/relevant state, so that I can track subsequent news, and I have the answer now from user lstyls.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Stephen_Lawrence

In the case you cite, it is worth noting that the Hutton Inquiry replaced an inquest, which is very unusual.

Also this type of whitewash:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488667/Why-I-know-we...

USA doesn't have an independent coroner with legal power like that. Police and District Attorney (local prosecutor) investigate deaths, including investigating themselves.

Really?

I was pretty sure that the one and only job of a Coroner in the U.S. was to report cause of death.

I was also under the impression that if cause of death is not natural, then the local authorities are supposed to open an investigation.

In Canada too. In Ontario, any death involving police automatically triggers an investigation by a police of police (Special Investigations Unit). Really shocking cases can lead to a public inquiry in parliament.

Of course we need to investigate but don't jump to any conclusions and start yelling about police brutality.

If he had mental health problems then police can easily be perceived as they are after him and any attempt to restrain you will be seen as violence.

It is really tragic but if it likely to be police brutality then the family will pursue it. If they don't pursue any action then my guess is that Ian had a mental illness and this is just a series of very unfortunate events due to that.

I today's USA, I see no reason to assume the police story is more reliable than a potentially mentally ill citizen's story. When video evidence isn't destroyed, t tends to point to police brutality.

> "If he had mental health problems then police can easily be perceived as they are after him and any attempt to restrain you will be seen as violence."

> "i had to have swtitches"

Yes, the cops will give themselves a complete and impartial investigation like they always do in US. /s

Reply on news.ycombinator.com