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Comment by giancarlostoro | Hacker News Reader

This is one OS I've kept my eye on forever, though it feels as though Microsoft will go open source before ReactOS can catch up if anything. I wouldn't mind if certain parts of Windows were open sourced, or replaced by open sourced alternatives at least, not all of Windows. We saw this happen to the Open Live Writer.

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Microsoft already kinda went open source, unintentionally :) http://www.opennt.net/

interesting thread documenting start of OpenNT project http://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=33250 from broken code base that would not compile to booting ~Windows 2003 compiled from source.

Avast gives me a Win32Evo Trojan warning when downloading NT 4.5 binary or ISO images. Is it a false positive or did they accidentally introduce a Trojan into the code?

Anyway Avast won't let me download NT 4.5 due to a Trojan warning. So I can't test it out unless I disabled my AV.

Edit: Why the downvote, scan it with Avast yourself if you don't believe me. I refuse to use it unless it is verified to not have a Trojan. Even if it might be a false positive.

Antiviruses are useless and you probably shouldn't be using one in 2015. Run the ISO in a VM if you don't trust it. (I didn't downvote you.)

They do this for "cracks" and "warez". I have a remote desktop licensing reset program and it flags it as a virus when it isn't.

oh, you might want to brush up on state of the art in security practices

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z7L498dNB0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzC8jJ0ESJ0

its trivial to bypass every single scanner on the market, at this point they are all snake oil

The NT 4.0 source code leak was in 1999 or so. How did it take so long for a compilation project to get underway?

I wouldn't go anywhere near that. Not worth getting legally tainted.

What's the license of that?

The license seems to be "very illegal", as this is a fork of the NT4 source code leak.

Interesting, I didn't know about OpenNT. Do you happen to know why they based it on the leaded NT4 source instead of the leaked win2k one?

The leaked win2k was very incomplete.

ReactOS may be the best WinXP-like alternative in existence. That counts for something... Not a huge amount, but something.

It seems to me like Microsoft is trying to position themselves more as a Google-type entity. In the past, they were a massive proprietary corporation focused on Windows.

Nobody cares about computers anymore (thanks smartphones, tablets!), and so Windows will go down the drain eventually. Not to mention Linux and OSX market share increasing. Not today, not tomorrow, but the writing's on the wall.

Open source to get devs on board again, switch to subscription-based models, record more user data, and create more products.

> Nobody cares about computers anymore

You know, it was annoying when people started to say those computers you carry with yourself the entire day were not "personal computers".

Now you are trying to say they are not even "computers"! I just hope the world ignores your labels.

Every label gets stuck to its progenitor. The first things that we owned that were computers get called computers. The second set of things we own, that are also computers, but have some other defining qualities, get called something else to distinguish them from the first thing.

I'm perfectly ok with naming them "telephones", or "smartphones". As I'm quite ok with naming those older ones "desktops" and "laptops".

I find the name "PC" for distinguishing desktops/laptops from phones/tablets mildly annoying, and very amusing because of how badly the name fits its meaning. But yes, there is a need to differentiate open computers from locked-down computers, and from that point of view the name isn't that bad anymore.

Now, there's no need at all to assign the label "computer" to any form-factor. We have plenty of label already, and that would make a huge mess on communications.

I call it "the super computer in my pocket", but that label doesn't seem to be catching on.

> Nobody cares about computers anymore (thanks smartphones, tablets!), and so Windows will go down the drain eventually

Not holding my breath for that.

Agree, but with a disclaimer: I have a feeling the biggest part of Windows' marketshare 20 years from now will be Windows Server Core instances (running on Azure and elsewhere), with "Windows as PC software" no longer contributing much-at-all to the bottom line, and possibly made entirely free. Business workstations (everything currently running Windows Enterprise) will run something-or-other-that-doesn't-matter that can run Microsoft Remote Desktop, and apps will mostly be delivered via RemoteApp connections to said Windows Server Core clusters.

Microsoft is becoming a cloud company, and enterprises are finally starting to accept thin clients (because now thin clients are actually kind of fat, and thus much less annoying to use.) Windows-on-the-desktop will basically be in a race against ChromeOS, which is fundamentally a thin-client OS as well.

(Meanwhile, OSX will probably... continue to just be OSX. Unless Apple has some big new shift in vision, they're nowhere near being a cloud company, and OSX is nowhere near being a thin-client OS.)

Apple is a hardware company, too.

They kind of have to be. They forbid using their OSes on non-Apple hardware.

Desktop use is shrinking compared to alternatives --- especially mobile. In developing countries, many people use smartphones as their only form of access to the internet.

People aren't saying that desktops etc are going to disappear, but that the cash cow in the next decade is probably going to have a much smaller form factor and a different OS from your traditional desktop.

This is exactly what I was trying to say, thank you.

Wait....are you telling me that used a computer today? And the day before that? And the day before...

Ah, you're probably behind the times and not very techy anyway.

I'm using a computer right now. I use a cellphone when I'm out, and use a tablet in bed/on the couch. I use a laptop when not home.

I use my computer to stream games on TwitchTV. I also run a Linux VM on my personal computer to run caffe for neural net things. Let's see your tablet do that...

Tablets are computers.

Computer + X = Computer

Computer + teletype = Computer

Computer + VDU = Computer

Computer + Mouse = Computer

Computer + Ethernet = Computer

Computer + Phone = Computer

Computer platforms devour the peripherals mated to them.

BTW The Limbo PC emulator on Android is capable of running a minimal Linux distro and there are MS DOS emulators for iOS. It's just a matter of time.

BRB, installing vmware on my Win8 tablet.

It still won't run caffe because you don't have a powerful GPU to train neural nets on

> Nobody cares about computers anymore

You're not in touch with reality at all

I think the comment to which you were responding was both thoughtful and, yes, provocative. You took the bait, but you didn't add anything of substance. Do you think that attributing some of the shift in how computing is done to tablets/smartphones is "not in touch with reality"? Because if you can show some data or link to other arguments, that would be really interesting. If not, why post?

The parent post didn't say anything thoughtful. The same spiel about Windows going down the drain has been repeated for years. People not using computers is just mindlessly repeated these days.

You're asking me to provide data or links to other arguments but the initial statement provided neither.

Why did you call my comment out but not the other two similar responses to the same line?

I could say that you proved my comment to provocative and took the bait but then we'll spiral into comment hell.

I replied to your post because I saw it first. Had I seen the others at the time, I might have just moved on.

What I understand when people say the PC is dying is not that people will not touch a desktop or laptop at all in the foreseeable future but rather that the growth in sales will be much sharpernwith phones and tabletsbthan with desktop and laptop devices. They're not making broad, futuristic predictions. They're just trying to make sense of the market. The fact that Apple released a whole line of iPads kindnof shows this. That is just my opinio though.

Moore's Law is slowing down, and PCs and laptops are having longer effective lifetimes. I've got an eight year old laptop that's still serviceable - actually runs better with Windows 10 than it did with the Vista that came on it. It's not obsolescence every eighteen months any more. That's where phones are now. In a few years, they'll mature, and it'll be how VR goggles or the next gewgaw are killing the PC. Meanwhile PCs will still be there anywhere actual work and creation needs to happen.

Or maybe I'm a prematurely old man, who's looking for kids to yell at about getting off his lawn. But I haven't found a use for tablets other than watching TV or reading, and I can't even really do those functions on a phone. Much less use a phone as a phone. What percentage of smartphones are primarily used as uber-expensive, complicated digital watches or alarm clocks?

Which is exactly the point I (the parent comment of this thread) was trying to make: The desktop/laptop (which I described using the term computer in my original post) market is declining. Not because they aren't used anymore, but because I don't need to replace them anymore.

You do realize that that's a totally different argument that "nobody cares about computers anymore".

The market doesn't care anymore about getting the hot new computer. They care about the new, shinier gadgets. I don't think it's a different argument.

It is. In one we have "the market" as the one who cares or not. On the other we have "the people".

The people will continue to care for and use computers, even if the hot new market is something else.

Fair enough. I didn't meant to start a "thing" with my comment but thought maybe it would make you explain what you meant. I'll word my comments better in future.

Windows is complex enough that I think so. I am thinking of breaking up Microsoft's OS division into a non-profit foundation, funded by hardware vendors like Dell and Intel with no per system licensing fees required anymore for example.

The DOJ wanted to break Microsoft up into different companies like they did to AT&T. They would have been called the Baby Bills, and one would do Windows all by itself, and another would do Internet sites and apps, and another games, and another apps, and another developer tools.

But that didn't happen and Microsoft got a slap on the wrist instead.

Many people migrated to GNU/Linux or Mac because Microsoft had abused their monopoly, some people and companies are stuck with Microsoft because their business needs Windows to run their custom apps.

    Many people migrated to GNU/Linux or Mac because
    Microsoft had abused their monopoly, some people
    and companies are stuck with Microsoft because
    their business needs Windows to run their custom
    apps.

Citation needed. I migrated to Mac OS X in 2000[1] because it was a Unix-like operating system with a usable UI that worked well on a laptop[2].

Also, there were to be two companies, not five[3].

Of course, I might be biased because I worked for Microsoft for four years in the 00's. So take this for what you will.

[1] Yes, the public beta.

[2] OK, let's be honest, it worked tolerably. It didn't get good until 10.2'ish.

[3] http://money.cnn.com/2000/06/07/technology/microsoft_ruling/

How can I cite thoughts in people's heads? Their opinions on why they switched? Apple did a series of commercials about switching to Macs and cited the problems in Windows. The FOSS community has been promoting GNU/Linux as an alternative to Windows for a long time now. This is common sense stuff that I shouldn't have to find a news media source on, because the news media doesn't cover that sort of stuff.

Most business software is written for Windows, some businesses develop their own custom apps or use Excel and MS-Office. So it isn't easy to migrate from Windows to GNU/Linux for them. I know this from experience as I worked at places like that. It is stuff that the news media won't report on, the business lock-in and when you Google Windows business lock in you get Windows apps for Business results so you can't find anything about the lock-in.

But back on topic ReactOS doesn't run the business apps a lot of companies rely on, so it isn't a good alternative to Windows yet for them.

ReactOS is for hobbyists right now because it is still in the alpha stage and not ready for Prime Time yet.

Edit: Typo

    How can I cite thoughts in people's heads?
    Their opinions on why they switched?

NPD[1] often does research on consumer technology choices. I would've checked there for starters.

[1] https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/home/

Yes, it is common sense stuff, but the point is that many switched not because of the famous MS anti-trust rulings as you implied in the original post.

I know, and simply breaking up the OS division the traditional way would not solve the problems anyway. That is why I suggested a better idea this time.

You designed... what?

Generous of you. What about the effect on pension funds that hold this now worthless stock? Grants to employees? The thousands of job losses?

Yea, it would be complex and have to be planned carefully too.

I love this reply. It made me smile

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