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Comment by jacquesm | Hacker News Reader

I really don't get this concept. Never ever would I entrust a total stranger that I haven't even met with an expensive piece of machinery. You have zero control over what happens when you're not there and your car could easily end up being totaled, broken (in ways not easily seen immediately) or used in ways that conflict with the law. Sure, the 'middleman' will tell you it's all just fine and they're insured and what not. But in the end it's your problem to fix it if things don't work out and it won't take very much to offset the gains from going this route in the first place.

I love the basic idea behind the sharing economy, way too much stuff lying around unused. At the same time as a supplier of capital goods to that industry you're taking an awful lot of risk.

Edit: I did some googling about flightcar reviews:

http://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.flightcar.com

View on HN

And then you get to be in the middle of an argument over who pays. Well, what really happens is you have to pay so your car will work, and then you have to attempt to be reimbursed. What happens when it's not immediately obvious something is broken? eg someone who doesn't drive much nails a curb and screws your alignment, or leaves the parking brake on while driving around. Tolls and tickets are similar -- you pay, then hope to be reimbursed.

This seems like a potentially giant hassle to avoid a cab or uber or train ride.

edit: also, from their insurance policy [1], if a renter damages the vehicle

   In the event it is practical for FlightCar to repair the vehicle prior to 
   your return, you authorize us to do so, using solely quality licensed 
   establishments. FlightCar will cover the cost of professionally repairing 
   your vehicle to its original condition, or, in the event of total loss, up 
   to the vehicle’s cash value.

There are several huge problems. First, if you have a 1st party warranty, using an unapproved repair service can void that warranty. Goodbye 100k bumper-to-bumper warranty. Second, there can be a significant gap between blue-book value and what it costs you to go purchase a similar vehicle, particularly to purchase one right now because you don't have a car anymore. You agree to fund that out of pocket.

edit2: one more multi-thousand dollar problem: car tax. In CA in particular, I think I paid somewhere between 7.5% and 10% of the value of the car. On a $20k used car, you're going to also self-insure the $1.5k to $2k you have to pay to buy the replacement car.

[1] https://flightcar.com/insurance

A good insurance company will include taxes on the replacement in their total loss settlement offer.

The whole "sharing economy" fad preys on people who don't properly understand risk. When the cost of risk is factored in you get the price before the market disruption.

Shhhh! You'll burst the bubble.

Not if it allows you to bring unused/underused capacity into use.

I couldn't agree more. As someone who made some stupid decisions by letting friends (or so I thought) borrow my car and take care of my cats (opened my home while I wasn't there) and who got totally fucked over for thousands of dollars, I'd never ever let anyone rent my car or in my house without me being there. I learned my lesson the hard way and many people are now learning the same hard lesson.

The thing is, it doesn't have to be this way. Companies like airbnb, flightcar, etc. have more than enough money to easily cover the damages that do occasionally happen. Their failure to act and remedy things basically shows what shitty companies they are. It's amazing to me that the biggest percentage of users of such services don't get fucked over, but it's even more amazing to see companies shirk their duties. In fact, if the company doesn't clearly list what they'd do in case of such foul play and their insurance policy, I don't even think they should be allowed to legally operate a business. Of course, this is part of a growing trend of companies trying to get rid of any liability they have and put it on their customers. I'm hoping that as more horror stories happen, someone will start legislating these companies and demand that they pay for any damages. Until then, I would stay away from such companies as a "host."

It's just stupid to do business with such companies, just as stupid as letting your friends borrow your car / stay in your place unsupervised. And that is indeed, quite stupid.

I always feel hesitant to even give my car to a valet, who will only have it a short time and won't take it far. I could never imagine renting out my car to a stranger.

Although, renting out my HOUSE to a stranger is even more disturbing to me, but people do it!

I've never rented from a person (only from apartment communities); is there no background check involved in these cases?

Usually for sites like Airbnb.com, the only "background check" is looking at the potential renter's profile

I've almost always rented from individuals, and only real hard-asses in extremely tight rental markets (Bay Area?) will do a background check. Most will just interview you and, if you seem stable, take a deposit and give you a set of keys. It's not like you can run off with their apartment, and landlords are generally pretty good at getting a sense of how people will treat their property.

thanks!

I wasn't really talking about renting your house for a long term thing... that doesn't seem as disturbing, since you are moving out when they move in... I mean something like AirB&B, where you rent your place while your stuff is still in it.

duh. Should've guessed, given the context.

The big risk that people probably don't consider (and this may vary from state to state) is that if someone is injured on your property or in your house, you as owner are going to get sued.

If you lend your car to someone and they are in an accident causing serious property damage or injury, you as owner are going to get sued.

You may have insurance to cover these liabilities but you may find that your rates go up, or your policies get canceled, after a significant claim.

It's worse than that. Insurance for your private use of your consumer purchases often explicitly does not apply to commercial use. It can void your policy. Trying to submit a claim can get you charged with fraud.

I have read about this related to AirBnB. A quick google turns up this article, though I don't really think it was what I read previously: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/06/your-money/airbnb-offers-h...

(Also: I worked in insurance for a few years.)

One comedian back in the day was talking about "This amazing car I had on the weekend - it could go straight from 4th gear into Reverse: it was a rental car!"...

Exactly this. A rental car is prime for abuse. Recently my car needed body work after being hit in a parking lot. The bodyshop/dealership gave me a brand new Buick, 1200 miles on it, while they worked on my car. The guy said its still considered a new car up to 6 or 8 thousand miles (I cant remember which..). But all I did to that car was floor it and try to abuse it as much as possible. As shitty as it is to say, its fun to drive a car that you have no responsibility for.

Wow. I have really no words for this. One that you would do it, two that you would boast about it. Props for honesty I guess.

Ha, props or down votes for honesty? In all seriousness, I think my statement is only surprising for people not in the automotive industry. Most people I know that rent cars absolutely beat the shit out of them.

No downvote from me (no upvote either).

> Most people I know that rent cars absolutely beat the shit out of them.

Most people that I know don't. And when I rent a car I take good care of it, as good or better as if it were my own. I'll use it for what it is made for, not to see if I can contribute to the negative portion of the tragedy of the commons.

Think about it this way: your behavior with a rental car affects everybody renting cars, not just you. So you're not abusing the car, you're abusing the people around you and your net-negative contribution translates into higher rates and a negative expectancy about customer behavior on the part of the rental company. That you and those that you know that do this too can get away with it is no excuse.

> Think about it this way:...

That's how rational adults act. The US is very short on rational adults under 40 nowadays.

I agree. It's not that I don't understand that, but you are taking me saying I abuse the car as in I run into stuff and ruin the transmission. In reality I am just saying I drive a little more rough when the car isn't mine. Floor it, slam on break, but never endanger myself of someone else. I don't know, I thought this was the code of the rental car.

I'm going to go with some people are like you, and some people are like me. And the rates reflect the middle and won't change too much. Accidents are random and happen to people that take good care of their cars and people that don't.

I don't rent cars often. Generally when I do I am out of town, driving in unfamiliar places, and so driving with extra caution. But even if I were in town, I would not drive it recklessly.

Since you enjoy needlessly damaging property, there's all kinds of petty vandalism you can get away with too! One time I had my car keyed in a parking lot for no apparent reason. Cost me a couple hundred dollars and was a hassle to get fixed. At the time I was pretty upset, but now I understand it must have provided a few seconds of fun for the person who did it!

How are you possibly going to get compensated when the transmission falls out a week after you rented the car out?

It was the thermostat and radiator, and I wasn't expecting / never asked for compensation for that. But the shop they took it to was going to charge $200 more than I ended up paying because they wanted to do things in a way that didn't really make sense / was easier for FlightCar.

I know. I was just writing about the general impossibility of getting compensation for unseen internal damage to the vehicle. The renter can ride the clutch for two hours until it starts making a gravelly, clanging noise, hand the car back over and walk away, and there is zero chance that any insurer will pay for it.

One particular model Ford (F150) comes in a version with a V8 that is a bit too strong for the frame. If you use it for what it's made (pull heavy stuff) at some point the transmission will simply drop out from underneath because the retainer bracket at the back is too light for the job. This happened to me (no warranty, they claimed the vehicle was not meant for heavy duty, in spite of being sold exactly as such...). I can easily imagine your 'tranny drops out from underneath' after renting your car out to someone that pushes that car a bit further than you normally do.

I'm still boycotting Ford over that whole affair, what a nonsense. Stick a 350+ HP engine in a car and then expect it to be used for shopping only...

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