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Comment by mc32 | Hacker News Reader

This article covers Berlin. How is it in other cities and states in Germany?

Berlin, as far as I know, has a unique history so that it's not always representative of Germany as a whole, in general terms.

That's to say, while Berkeley, CA, has some interesting politics, it does not reflect state or national policies. Meaning, what works in Berkeley (or Berlin) may not be transplantable.

Meaning that while interesting and worthwhile to study as a way to address housing shortages, it may or may not hold a viable answer for other jurisdictions who don't share some of the reasons making this policy viable under particular circumstances.

What's the state of affairs in Hamburg, Essen, Frankfurt, etc.

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Munich here. Most expensive city in Germany in absolute prices and second expensive relative the the average income (Freiburg is top there). 12 Euros per square meter average rent. In good locations, 20 is asked regularly. More than 30 for small 1 bedroom appartements.

Statistics says, 3300 Euros per square meter buying price. We try to find a good place since 3 years, and we have never seen anything below 7000 Euros (in good central locations). 10.000+ is asked for regularly. The market is standing still because few people can afford these prices any more. Berlin prices would be a dream come true here.

Laws are the same as in Berlin. But since there is much more money to win, there is more aggression to get rid of old tenants and thus raise prices and/or build new houses. We have seen places, where the real estate dealer did not tell us how nice everything is, but calculated how much we can make, if we rent to Engineers who work for big companies like BMW or EADS. In cash and percent interest rate for our investment. Never heard that anywhere before.

Does that mean Berlin's approach to housing is unique to Berlin and that the policies which make renting both the preferred housing option as well as making it economically rational, not the case in other large metro areas?

I'm curious because people point to Berlin as a model (for providing affordable and desirable housing) but it would not be a good model if it does not work elsewhere. But conversely soul be a good model to study if it were viable elsewhere (especially booming cities -- where the issue is pronounced)

To my knowledge, the law is the same everywhere in Germany. Berlin makes a good example with still low prices because of its history. But there is certainly more protest against investors in Berlin compared to Munich. And more protection from the traditionally less conservative government. In Munich it counts as embarrassing not to be rich.

There are a few things in regards to housing that are specific to Berlin like how much low income housing is build etc. but most of it isn't.

Renting is and has more or less always been the preferred option in Germany. The reasons that make it also a good idea economically have less to do with laws and more to do with a declining population, people moving to larger cities and culture. Unless you have a place in a large city, which you probably can't afford, it's going to lose value. Also you may want or need to be flexible in regards to where you live and work, owning property doesn't help with that.

From a law perspective the situation is very similar. Tenants can't be evicted easily. In areas of high demand rents are (mostly) indexed as well.

Compared to Hamburg, Munich and Dusseldorf Berlin is still rather cheap. I have apartments both in Hamburg and Berlin and pay roughly ~1.5 as much per square meter in Hamburg, though the one in Berlin is in a much better location.

It's widely different there are a few large cities booming. Some cities are losing a lot population.

In East Germany you can see around Berlin islands of stability in larger cities. The rest of East Germany is losing population:

http://www.handelsblatt.com/images/k_prognose-einwohner/8552...

The red areas are gaining and the blue areas are losing population... the main factors are jobs, jobs, jobs and attractive infrastructure/cultural life/... Dense urban areas in the big cities are especially attractive.

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