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Comment by JamesBaxter | Hacker News Reader

What is the best way for me as a UK citizen to try and fight this? Just keep donating to the EFF? Talk to my local MP?

Enough voters are so easily led by fear and minsinformation that I'm starting to think that there is nothing at all we can do.

I am a member of the Open Rights Group. I make monthly donations and attend their conferences. I petition and write to MPs and MEPs and nothing works. I don't even get replies.

Which is why I am now considering moving out of the country. I'm currently weighing up my options.

There is very little about Britain, its politics and the majority of the voterbase that I have anything in common with, apart from being born on the same patch of dirt.

Likewise: I'm a member of ORG and have written to my MP with no response. The general population either don't care or, as you say, are misled with bias and what amounts to emotional blackmail ("Think of the children", etc.)... We're doomed. The thing is, there doesn't really seem to be anywhere that isn't close behind.

My (Canadian) wife is proposing that we emigrate to Canada in the medium-term - I'm inclined to agree with her for the same reasons that you give.

Canada is something I've only thought about in passing.

I don't really know much about the process of moving there to be honest.

I'll have to read into it.

Iceland seems to be pretty awesome from a political point of view. And it's still close to most European cities.

Effing cold though... and right when UK weather had got a bit more tolerable for us Meds (thank you, El Niño!)

Canada is on my short-list too, but i wonder if it is really any better? It is 5-eyes, after all.

In a past HN thread someone posted the same conclusion, of just moving country. I feel the exact same as well, but utopia doesn't exist, so what country do people suggest?

Finland, Switzerland, Czech Republic or South American countries (Costa Rica, Panama, etc) are the countries I have in mind. I'd gladly move to Switzerland but it costs too much. Romania appears tech friendly but it's too poor there. South America is nice but it's too far away from the UK, so going to my family for Christmas would be a problem.

I know this is a UK related thing, but I've honestly felt this way about the US lately as well (and the situation isn't much different). Not sure where to look, everyone seems to have their problems dealing with the disruption and possibilities technology is bringing.

Where would you move out? Any other of 5eyes country? 13eyes?

I suspect that's true of most British people now. The media image may not be a majority view.

But I'm also on the "get out soon" train.

Where do you consider moving?

A few places I've considered and researched so far are Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Germany, Belgium, and Switzerland.

Some of these countries are worse than others when it comes to similar surveillance or civil liberties issues but they all at least appear to be very much preferable to Britain and the path it is on.

The language barrier in issue in some of these places more than others, although I am open to learning a new language. I began taking German lessons recently just for fun.

The actual process of gaining citizenship or even residency can be difficult too, especially for somewhere like Iceland from what I have learned.

It's obviously a massive decision to make and not one that can be made quickly and rashly.

I just can't see myself wanting to stay here in the UK much longer. I don't feel any kinship with this place.

Iceland IMO would only be good if the Pirate Party actually wins the election, but at the moment I think it's too soon to consider that country an option for myself. Norway, Denmark, Germany & Belgium censor websites for corporations which rules them out for me and some of them also appear to be going down the same path as the UK. I want somewhere where I can operate my websites without having to constantly suffer from a Chilling Effect, as I do currently in the UK.

From personal experience, language barrier wouldn't be an issue in Belgium for a tech job. Due to existent Flemish/French division, English often becomes the local esperanto, although it may depend on the company policy.

Yeah I imagine professionally (as a developer) my English language wouldn't be a major hurdle in many of these countries.

I think that I would have some problems socially though. Naviagting my way around the country, buying goods and just trying to talk to people would pose more of a problem.

Yes, socially, and also for minor things like renting an appartment, communicating with service providers, tax authorities, banks, etc.

If you're in the UK, you should donate to the Open Rights Group (UK equivalent to the EFF).

https://www.openrightsgroup.org/

Perhaps join the Open Rights Group: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/ They're more UK-focused than the EFF.

This is a proposed bill and will be debated in parliament. You should talk to your MP, ideally in person, or at least via email / letter (Talktoyourmp)

EFF is the US focused why would donating to them do anything for us?

Generally it's a good idea for everyone to support EFF, most of data about you, your family, friends is in the US. If EFF or ACLU or wikimedia can make a good change in the US, everyone will benefit.

Also, should the EFF score some victories, it would set a precedence and spread to other countries (spying agencies seem to follow the US)

Donate to the ORG please.

Yes this.

The Open Rights Group are more or less the UK equivelant to the EFF.

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