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Comment by jazzyk | Hacker News Reader

All very true. Perhaps men are more suicidal because the deck is stacked against them:

- 93% of workers who died at work due to fatal accidents or violence were male

- 77% of males are genitally mutilated at birth (in the US), female mutilation is illegal

- 29% of male first-time offenders were sentenced to custody. For women, that figure was 17%. Men have a 62% chance of being bailed, while for women that figure is 80%

- men are as likely as women to be victims of domestic abuse

- men are more likely to be made redundant and less likely to be re-employed than women

- 90% of homeless are male

But I hear there is this "war on women" going on...

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As a male with only brothers I always thought men had things worse. We are expected to do 100% of "Man's work" and 50% of everything else "Shared work". The concept of "Women's work" is seen as a very outdated and offensive. As a male you aren't suppose to complain or ask for help so you don't. It seems like a raw deal...

Now that I have a wife and a daughter I realize that women often have it worse than men (in terms of general happiness). Not because of men but because of how complex their relationships with other women/groups of women are. They are brutal to each other and spend tons of energy undermining each others confidence and playing micro social games of exclusion and humiliation for virtually no gain. I feel sad to know that my daughter will have to endure the slings and arrows of "Frenemies" as she grows up, and that she may well dish it out to some other poor girl.

"- 93% of workers who died at work due to fatal accidents or violence were male"

Violence in the workplace is negligible compared to occupational hazards. Those killed by violence in the armed forces or law enforcement is most certainly a "workplace hazard" so that can't be lumped in with workplace violence.

Last I checked there weren't a lot of women working in close proximity to heavy equipment and industrial machines when compared with men. If you're not working somewhere dangerous you're less likely to be killed/injured on the job.

- 77% of males are genitally mutilated at birth (in the US), female mutilation is illegal

The CDC stopped recommending circumcision because it didn't have probable benefits, noticed bad results (increased chance of STD transmission) and started recommending it again. You're fighting an uphill battle on that one

"- 29% of male first-time offenders were sentenced to custody. For women, that figure was 17%. Men have a 62% chance of being bailed, while for women that figure is 80%"

Without information about the nature of the crimes this is useless. There's an infinite supply of anecdotal evidence that law enforcement treats women less poorly (more warnings, less piling on of charges) but that's not really admissible evidence in this sort of numbers debate.

I generally agree with your implied conclusion but pick better supporting evidence, when you have an unpopular opinion you need to be so convincing that even the dumbest of the dumb don't feels quite right disagreeing.

Your point about working conditions being the reason for fatal accidents is obviously correct, I thought it was kinda implied (wanted to keep it brief).

I was not discussing potential benefits (or lack thereof) of circumcision - rather pointing out the unequal treatment of men (OK to mutilate without consent) vs women (illegal to mutilate).

>The CDC stopped recommending circumcision because it didn't have probable benefits, noticed bad results (increased chance of STD transmission) and started recommending it again. You're fighting an uphill battle on that one

Are we to suggest that the main issue with FGM is that there aren't any major beneficial results from doing such?

Down-voted for stating fully verifiable facts?

I'm sure it's for the words "deck is stacked against them" and the snark about the problems women face, not the list of facts. A big list of pros without cons, or cons without pros, says nothing about overall ranking. Overall ranking is a terrible way to think about things, anyway. Problems don't get fixed because other people have different problems.

I listed "cons" because they almost certainly affect the high rate of suicides among men - the very topic of this thread.

The statistics listed support the "deck is stacked..." statement. It is hard not to be frustrated by the media narrative focusing on women's issues, mostly ignoring men's.

Please could you show any link between male circumcision and suicide?

See my response in the other subthread below

I downvoted you for parroting a bunch of unrelated "red pill" nonsense in order to advance an insolent, regressive agenda instead of providing a meaningful commentary on the article or the other comments here.

Uh, what part of that comment is unrelated nonsense? Seemed pretty related and sensical to me.

It's a bunch of random MRA stuff dumped into a thread.

How is male circumcision linked to suicide?

How is workplace death linked to suicide?

He didn't say any of those things are related to suicide, they're just examples of gender disparity. I don't know much about MRA or red pill, but my guess is that you're committing an association fallacy here.

> He didn't say any of those things are related to suicide

Which is why he got downvoted. They're mostly not relevant to suicide[1]. It's just a dump of MRA bullshit with no relevance to the thread.

[1] but if you can show reputable sites that make links I'd be interested to see them. (And I'm not saying they're all irrelevant.)

Shut the fuck up, you stupid moron. They're statistics, not "MRA bullshit". Do they show any correlation with suicide at all? No. Are they implicitly MRA statistics because they highlight disparity between genders specifically for men? No. Does highlighting the difficulties one gender faces neglect another gender's difficulties? No.

So, please shut the fuck up. You are doing absolutely fuck all to help ANY gender. Your polarised views and divisive attitude is only making it far, far worse.

Workplace accidents are caused by working in close proximity to heavy equipment and industrial machines.

Do you not think that working in dangerous and/or unhealthy jobs (or being stationed in Afghanistan) affects your happiness? (There are numerous studies about post-traumatic syndrome for veterans)

While circumcision does not affect happiness, the contrast between men (OK to mutilate men without consent) and women, shows media/cultural bias (supports the wider point of deck being stacked against men)

> Do you not think that working in dangerous and/or unhealthy jobs (or being stationed in Afghanistan) affects your happiness?

No. But if you can show a reputable site that shows a link to heavy industry and suicide I'd be interested.

There's currently a link (in the UK) between construction workers and suicide, but this is thought to be linked to financial instability, not dangerousness of the workplace. That link hasn't always been there. We don't see the same correlations in other dangerous industries. We do see the same correlations in other industries that are affected by worsening economy, or that provide access to means and methods. (EG vets have access to meds, and are affected by worsening economy when farmers can't afford them).

What in the world is "red pill" about anything they wrote? Does "red pill" now stand for any case of trying to say men have it worse in some area?

Unless they edited and took some stuff out, I'm not seeing anything related to that topic.

Funny, when i started reading this I was thinking that most of these dudes whom killed themselves had adverse relations with their partners. Then my boy called me about an argument he had with his wife, about her instigating him with, "why are you mad all the time".

funny.

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