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Comment by rayiner | Hacker News Reader

Out of warranty battery service on a Mac ranges from $130-200: https://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=servicefaq&geo=Unite.... I think that's a reasonable price considering Lenovo charges $140 for a 75-watt hour 68+ battery for the T450s: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetails/0C52862/460/D91DC49....

And for $130-200, they will replace your top-case (including keyboard and touchpad). I have had it done more than once and it was a same-day turnaround each time (couple of hours).

I wonder if there wasn't something more wrong with his laptop caused by letting a worn-out battery sit in there too long.

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The article mentions that the actual work takes a few hours, but the wait to get the machine actually serviced was 3 days. That is totally store dependent and very clear in the article.

What isn't clear is why he needs to part with his machine for 3 days.

Why can't they schedule they swap, and have him come in and wait?

>Now it turns out that it doesn’t actually take 3 days, its just the line is really long and it does apparently take several hours per machine.

For one they can't predict when they are going to get around to your machine. There may be 100 repair orders in front of yours, might take 1 day, might take 2. They can't possibly set up a system where they send you an alert to say "You are next in line, please bring in your laptop." That would cause incredible delay when that person doesn't show up and you have a tech repair guy waiting for a machine.

The difference is that the T450s takes literally 5 seconds todo a battery swap and you can keep using the machine during the time. No downtime, no bureaucracy, just go to Amazon and wait 2 days for your battery arrive.

Much smarter to optimize for every day use than the 0 or 1 time you replace the battery.

4 days of battery downtime for replacement is inexcusable. There is no way I can take that time off from being productive. Whereas I can carry a machine that's literally 3 millimiters thicker.

> There is no way I can take that time off from being productive.

But surely you (or your workplace) have a backup plan if your laptop needs service that takes a few days. What would you do if you need a new screen, or a new hard drive, or a new fan... It's not like a laptop repair that takes a few days should be a big shock to anyone who's owned a few laptops (Apple or otherwise).

By the way, one of the things that the $500 Joint Venture program gets you at Apple is a loaner computer while your machine is out for service. So that's one option.

The other option, which we use at my work, is we have a spare laptop. It gets used for a number of purposes, one of which is a loaner for repairs.

And, more importantly, you only need to pay for Joint Venture once per organization up to a certain number of computers. The article quickly shoots past the fact that their organization (that they admit has 5 laptops) could have easily justified that cost if it was so important for them to avoid downtime of more than 1 day.

Four days is a long weekend. I personally would welcome a forced vacation.

But if 1 piece of machinery really is that critical to your business, you'll have an identical standby ready to go when your primary one eventually craps out.

I've decided to let Apple handle inventorying my standby machine. I can walk into an Apple store and 5 minutes later be ready to go again. Then the high resale value of my old machine makes it easy to sell on craigslist.

The article says you can continue using the computer without harm if you keep it plugged in. Surely you can work on your computer while it's plugged in while you look for a spare laptop?

T450S is a totally different machine. Use the X1 for your example.

The X1 battery replacement is still an order of magnitude easier. With the laptop that the author had trouble with you aren't removing the battery, you're swapping the motherboard into a new chassis, which happens to have a battery glued to it.

The difference is that you can buy an X250 that does exactly what I want. What's the Apple equivalent of an X250?

Yes, and because of that, the entire design of the case is compromised, it feels like it's flexing all the time in use, it's far less durable, it contains additional cheap plastic mechanical failure points and extra connectors for said easily-replaceable battery, and all this for a part which, in the normal lifetime of most well-built laptops (aka Macs), will never ever need to be replaced.

Nothing you said there has described any Thinkpad I've ever owned. Even after they got worse (post-IBM).

I've never seen the battery compartment be the source of physical issues. Typically it is the hinges on the LCD that give up or the case cracks in one of the four corners.

Mostly the case remains solid and the hardware within blows up.

I refuse to buy a laptop with no user-replaceable battery. I expect to need to replace the tires/brakes on my car, and I expect to replace the battery in my laptop.

If you keep your laptops long enough, you'll eventually have to deal with replacing a battery. My two-year old Dell latitude E6530 is solid (and admittedly heavy), with no noticeable flex. It has an easily replaceable battery as well as user-upgradeable RAM! I'd call it a well-made piece of hardware. I expect to replace the battery in the next year or so (the battery is starting to show its age by now, but at least it still works).

A bit off-topic: My previous laptop, a C2D Macbook Pro (old enough it had a replaceable battery) developed a swollen battery after 2 years. At the 3 year mark I had to open it up and replace a failed case fan (and a hard drive). Also, the optical drive failed within the first year, as did its warranty replacement. I eventually gave up on that (and removed the drive so it would stop churning incessantly) and bought an external USB drive.

> all this for a part which, in the normal lifetime of most well-built laptops (aka Macs), will never ever need to be replaced.

My laptops last 4-5 years. This battery failure was at 1.5 years. I just replaced mine after 2 years.

I have never experienced that with a T450s. Granted, I use a different Thinkpad day-to-day, but I get my hands on T450s as they're the standard issue where I work.

Your "cheap plastic" is my "case that just gets a little dent when it falls", which in the case of an MB deforms the entire case and probably breaks something in the process.

> I wonder if there wasn't something more wrong with his laptop caused by letting a worn-out battery sit in there too long.

I wonder why batteries aren't easily replaceable on both laptops and phones?

You know, it wasn't always so. I remember when you could literally slide the battery out of a laptop and slide a new one in.

And don't give me this thin bullshit.

I have a Samsung Series 9 and it is thinner than the Macbook Air. I just changed the battery myself. It took me 15 minutes. I unscrewed the back (standard philips screws) and slid the old one out and put the new one in. That's it. And I was still pissed, because, why the screws?

Oh did I mention I bought the new battery on eBay for $25? Has been working perfectly well for weeks now and when it doesn't, I'll buy a new one.

Honestly, this is nothing more than greed. Handicapping a product to increase service costs. That's just shameful.

FWIW, the battery on the Air also isn't glued, changing it is also a 15 min job, and it's also available for cheap online. But you do need the special screwdrivers for the bottom panel.

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Air+13-Inch+Mid+2013+Ba...

I've replaced the battery on my wife's air with the guide, tools and battery from ifixit. Took about 15 minutes on a Saturday, most of it was pre-reading the guide. And the total of like $150 (battery, screw driver set, shipping).

That battery is $75 on Newegg and Amazon.

Good luck replacing it yourself without breaking the keyboard, mainboard or other devices glued to the battery. I'm not saying you can't do it, but that it does happen.

This comment needs to be at the top. Something is missing from the story.

I think this is the answer, the Apple Store rep made a mistake. From the comments on the page:

BLUESHIRTER MAY 5, 2014 AT 3:44 AM Sadly, the guy you spoke to was very wrong. There are 2 part numbers for the same part depending on why it is being replaced. If the top case is damaged, or failed out of warranty, it’s 399. If it is a failed (out of warranty) or consumed battery, it is as stated above, $199, and 24 hours to replace. For validating your AppleCare, drop the machine for repair, go home, call AppleCare, email a copy of your receipt/proof of purchase, by the time you pick up the repair, you are golden. This is done nearly daily at every store in the country.

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