Hacker News Reader

Comment by ccvannorman | Hacker News Reader

I will go a step further: Advertisement in general should be banned.

Yes, I realize how unpopular this is. "Advertising has been around since the dawn of time!" and "Who will know what to buy? Economy would crash." To them I say the following: If you could choose to live your life and never see another advertisement, would you?

If the answer is yes, do you believe it is technologically feasible to live as a human being without ever seeing an advertisement?

If the answer is yes, then we agree.

By the way, if you want or need something, google it or watch a dedicated "ads about X" channel. When was the last time you saw an ad for anything and it changed your life more than marginally?

View on HN

> If you could choose to live your life and never see another advertisement, would you?

I don't particularly value advertising, I can take it or leave it, and mostly ignore it altogether.

>If the answer is yes, then we agree.

Not necessarily. The premise that no one should be allowed to advertise anything smacks a bit of thoughtcrime. How "general" does "advertisement in general" have to be? Only for-profit products and services, or would advertising by non-profit organizations be banned as well? Would no one running for office be allowed to communicate their platform with the public? Would stores have to remove the signs from their storefronts?

>When was the last time you saw an ad for anything and it changed your life more than marginally?

Who said the purpose of advertising was to change your life? If that's your margin for what should be allowed and what not, then most forms of human expression and art have only marginally changed most people's lives. We could dispense almost everything besides popular culture.

>smacks a bit of thoughtcrime

I hadn't considered this. I suppose if there are clear laws about what advertising is and what is banned, and you freely choose to join that group, then we can avoid the thoughtcrime fears.

To specifically address your points, it's hard to say whether storefronts can advertise or not, because they own the building (but someone owns the billboards too). If you twist my arm I'll probably say that "Advertising is okay in a storefront if you're directly able to walk into the store and capitalize on the advert content". Billboards fail this test.

>Would no one running for office be allowed...

Well, in my view, paid placement for those running for office is a horrible symptom of a money-controlled government and media combo. (Un)fortunately that means that "in a world without ads", things like political knowledge and elections would need to have a structure to allow and encourage people to engage with it, which is an entire problem unto itself.

>Who said the purpose of advertising was to change your life?

Let me rephrase: From my perspective, I never benefit from seeing an ad. I know what I want and how to get it already, so I'm hard pressed to give an example of an ad that I derive value from.

>From my perspective, I never benefit from seeing an ad.

Ads would at the very least have made you aware of what choices the market provided. If you have a preference for any one brand of anything over another, chances are advertising played some part in that decision making process. And anyway, even if you were completely brand agnostic, that doesn't mean advertising doesn't have any value for other people as well.

"if you want or need something, google it.."

Ban advertisement and there goes Google.

Google's ads are practically its content. That's a significantly different situation, because Google doesn't really give you ads for things you didn't ask for ads for.

> That's a significantly different situation, because Google doesn't really give you ads for things you didn't ask for ads for.

Well, not really. Google will present ads that are relevant to me, but that doesn't mean that I asked for them.

They're still forced on me unless I start using Google Contributor.

He's referring to the ads on their search engine results page, not their ad network for publishers.

I agree. I already live my life with almost zero advertizing (adblocking + no tv), but I wouldn't mind going from "almost zero" to "absolute zero".

Not so long ago there used to be people here on HN arguing that people actually love ads (patio11 being one of them if I'm not mistaken); those people seem to have disappeared; I wonder what they think about the whole adblocking surge, esp. on iOS.

What is your exact definition of advertising for this universal ban?

Excellent question, and one I haven't thoroughly thought out. Here's a list of what to do in case of an over-advertising societal emergency ( hehe ):

1. No visible ads should ever be seen by someone not consuming media paid for by those ads. Billboards are the prime example. I wasn't watching TV, I was just driving, but suddenly billboards. 2. Next step is to eliminate ads bundled with media (at least in the traditional sense -- I am actually pro-product placement). In other words, you are not legally allowed to interrupt a media broadcast, or print article, with an ad that interrupts the consumer's experience.

This includes online banner ads, gmail text ads, commercials inside of TV shows and radio broadcasts, etc.

"But how will those artists/outlets make their living?" Hell if I know. That shouldn't be my problem.

I know, I know, ads are solving that problem, and you're right. A lot of creative media production/consumption might stop. And God knows I barely get my weekly fix of ingesting TV and radio -- I don't know what I'd do if that stream were suddenly lighter..

So, my gas station sign and blackboard telling what my restaurant is selling tonight are illegal? The movie theater marquee? The simple sign in the window of my store would fall under your rules.

Billboards could be seen as a driver's safety issue as well as landscaping goals, but what about resumes? Or web pages?

Advertising is a fundamental social skill. You advertise yourself to others when you dress up in the morning, so you're seen as superior compared to the slob that doesn't dress up. (or do you go out naked? who knows..) You post here to advertise your ideas.

None of these are free. All this marketing you do costs you one way or another. And you doing too much of some kind of promotion could be seen as excessive pollution.

Really, the only people that complain about advertising are people that are terrible at it. Everybody advertises in one form or another.

I think the opposite should be taught: how to be a better marketer. Everybody should know how to market properly, since everybody does it, but the vast majority just aren't good at it.

Always be closing.

I remember reading once that back in the days of medieval guilds it was illegal to advertise which also included saying “hello” to passersby. This engagement was illegal because the casual conversation could lead to a, “Why don’t you come inside to see what we have to offer.” It seems a bit ridiculous but where would you draw the line of what is considered advertisement?

looking for source

Given the intrusive intensity of the touting that goes on in a Moroccan medina, I can see where such a rule might have come from.

I would say that a ban on all advertising is not possible to implement in reality.

Its probably not the best option either, given some utility of advertising, such as general awareness of products and services, as other posters have stated.

I'd be eager to see much more limitation/regulation on advertising. In many countries (other than the US) there is tremendous regulation around medical devices, services and products - I would welcome the same sorts of regulation being applied to all products and services.

Goodbye to the entertainment industry, I guess. No more seeing a billboard about an upcoming gig for a standup comedian or a band, teasers for movies, reminders about game time...

So, back to the article. What has happened to those cities?

Well, perhaps event promotion is fine. But I wouldn't shed a tear if product advertising was banned in practically all its forms.

You could argue that movies are products but at least movies have a short lifespan so their promotion is time-limited. I guess you could argue that bands and sporting events and such-like are products too. But I'm okay with "music_performance_x/sporting_event_y/movie_z/theatrical_performance_w is coming to venue_v from time_t1 to time_t2" type promotions :)

There's an advertising hoarding/billboard on top of the opera house in the city where I'm from. For a car company. Been like this for as long as I remember. Permanent blot on the city-scape. Permanent eye-sore. Makes me dislike the opera house as a venue because of it. Yuck.

I disapprove of billboards in general and most forms of outdoor advertising. I'm not against personal recommendations and location-based promotion.

I'm sick of having my attention grabbed while consuming media, while browsing the web, while walking or driving. I install ad-blockers on whichever device I can. I keep TV viewing to a minimum and am continually put off by the sheer volume of ads and their vacuity.

I do listen to the radio a lot, I hate the ads on radio less, you can sort of tune them out. Visual ads I guess I hate the most.

So how do you plan on enforcing this? Revoking the First Amendment?

Corporate speech is not protected under the 1st amendment.

This is an absurd comment. If my grandma shows me the menu out the front of her favourite restaurant, she should be arrested for peddling advertising? She is doing unpaid advertising for the restaurant.

Advertising is an emotive subject for the HN crowd. Many of the start up can't really survive without resorting to advertising. Most of the ShowHN posts, blogs, tweets etc are some form of advertising. Should these be banned as well?

A personal recommendation isn't advertising.

An impersonal recommendation is.

As to the ShowHN posts, blogs, tweets etc, you actually choose to read the first two, and If I was on Twitter and someone I followed kept advertising at me, I'd stop following them.

The point being argued here is that advertising agencies have, for quite a while, felt that they can push ads at you without you choosing to be advertised at.

Ads are impersonal and unsolicited. I think the last point is key.

Someone flogging their site here is a grey area, of course, but HN is a community and there are guidelines and policies and ultimately it still feels like it belongs to the people who use it.

There are many places in my daily life where I have to go that feel more and more like they belong to advertisers (commerce) instead of the people who live there. At least on the web you can block the ads.

So, let me get this clear. You:

Would could choose to live your life and never see another advertisement.

You do believe it is technologically feasible to live as a human being without ever seeing an advertisement.

But you think the absurdity is due to the enforcement

The only chance of living as a human being without ever seeing/hearing/reading an advertisement is if I relocate to the middle of the Amazon jungle by myself. My point is the this type of enforcement is futile. Advertisement is part of our lives if we want to exchange what I have to what you have.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com