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Comment by ahh | Hacker News Reader

For the record: I feel a lot "safer" and more respected by Linus than I do by Sarah. Linus just wants me to submit good code and demands that I live up to his standards: if I don't, he'll call me out and tell me to do it again better. I can do that. Sarah wants me to agree with her politically: if I don't, she'll quietly organize a campaign against me behind my back. I'm good at writing proper code. I'm bad at winning political knife fights.

So have fun with your next project, Sarah, whatever it is! You organize your communities the way you like and I'll organize mine the way I do. We'll see who gets more done and has more fun!

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Woah! What campaign?!

I don't think she is drumming up any support. Asking for polite and decent conversations without being called a 'cry baby' or being asked to 'go back to kitchen' is not political knife fight, it is basic courtesy in a public forum IMO.

The problem with "basic courtesy" is that you need to understand other people's culture/background/personal life to make it "correct". There are people who will be offended just by criticizing their code, not their personal life.

This whole post that we're commenting on is about exactly that distinction, so this is a bogus argument.

She's not complaining about people being offended for some obscure cultural reasons. She states that the community is abrasive and led by assholes. The significance of being spat on is open to cultural interpretation; the significance of being stabbed with a knife is pretty unequivocal. Let's start with that.

Ahh has probably, like me, run into the social justice worriers. There is a community so toxic and full of hatred for (white heterosexual) men that they make Ulrich Drepper sound like miss Manners.

Many of their complaints are the same complaints Sarah posted, so it does seem reasonable (to me) to assume she was one of them. Normally they complain about some project not caring about their feelings, demand change, tear apart anyone who argues against them and then force anybody who disagree with them out. Death threats and emails to peoples employers suggesting they be fired are commonly used.

I don't think Sarah is one of them, because to work for that long on a project requires sharp technical skills, which the social justice warriors don't tend to have as well as a willingness to work with people don't agree with you.

I certainly wouldn't fault anybody for suspecting knives though.

It's not in any way reasonable to assume that someone is badly behaved without any specific evidence. To lump someone into a stereotypical grouping because you just assume they live up to that stereotype is the sign of a rather weak or insecure personality!

she seems different: honest but tired.

We must be able to defend Linus without attacking anyone criticizing the Linux kernel maintainers. Not everything is perfect on that list.

Whoa. Where did Sarah ever ask you to support her political agenda and opinions?

Why do some people have to think everything is about politics?

There is a difference between demanding and expecting great code and being an asshole. You can demand good code without alienating others.

To be honest, she did at least part of her campaign in public on the LKML directly interacting with Linus among others, and there doesn't seem to be evidence of she doing any "organizing against someone's back".

That said, I agree that it's problematic to try to enforce anything not regarding code, since the enforcer (or who succeeds them) can then abuse the enforcement itself as an harassing and exclusion tool (the so-called "Nazi moderator" problem).

I kinda prefer Linus's method as you know what will happen to you if you don't verify/validate (a kind of respect to everybody's time) before submitting.

There are many more people than Linus on LKML and the other lists. Don't make this about Linus.

example? the emails I've read so far are from Linus.

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