Hacker News Reader

Comment by fdej | Hacker News Reader

My impression living in France for the last year is very similar to yours. It's the mecca of paperwork (but doing taxes was relatively easy).

And if you're required to supply some documentation from another country, you're likely to be required to get it translated to French by an official translator (which not only takes time but can be quite expensive). In contrast, I've never had a problem handing in German documents to authorities in Sweden and Swedish documents to authorities in Austria. Documents in English have certainly been accepted everywhere outside of France.

The catch-22s are the best. Renting an apartment requires that you have a French bank account, and getting a French bank account requires that you already have somewhere to live in France...

View on HN

> Renting an apartment requires that you have a French bank account, and getting a French bank account requires that you already have somewhere to live in France...

Had the same :) But it is not really true. You can get a french bank account without living in France, got mine while living in Germany. But of course not all people working for a bank know or respect that. We got checked by my consellier very carefully before she said oui to opening the account.

Nice is the other one: To get an appartment you normally have to have an insurance, but to get that you need an appartment. Works with the landlord accepting to get the assurance attestation one week later, but is goodwill. Of course, a couple from marokko I know did not get the key from the man responsible in such a situation, while getting the appartment because it was university housing. They stood on the street after arriving here… That was pure racism, but shows that many thing here need goodwill to work despite the system.

The catch-22 applies to U.S. as well. Renting an apartment requires a credit score, which you get from having a credit card, which you can only get by having a credit score.

Well, that's not entirely true. I went through the process somewhat recently, and you can get a credit card by depositing some money first and using that as your max credit. That way the bank doesn't take any risk but you can build up your credit.

It's called a secured credit card... as in it's secured by your balance with the bank. Using it helps build your credit score and history so you can get a standard credit card. I have a friend doing this now who's just never used credit before.

It's more of an issue today since so many people just use their debit cards whereas years ago people used cash and credit cards. If you wanted the convenience of not carrying cash, you had to use your credit card since ATM cards didn't have Mastercard/Visa logos and couldn't be used to pay for things in stores. That's how today you wind up with someone in their late 20s that's never had a credit card or a loan.

> That's how today you wind up with someone in their late 20s that's never had a credit card or a loan.

This was me till I was 28. I was able to skip having to use a secured credit card by getting a joint card with someone who already has great credit.

Typically it's very easy to get a credit card from an institution with which you have a checking or savings account. I wouldn't be surprised if you had to "opt out" at this point in order to NOT receive one based on how aggressively companies target people new to the credit market. (This is especially true for college students who routinely get cards thrown at them with insane limits)

There are starter cards for people that don't have an established credit history. It's really not complicated - stop trying to make it out to be something it's not

I've been an American 40 years and never had a credit score or a credit report and never borrowed any money (the three agencies don't know who I am). Nevertheless, I can rent apartments. I just have to have a lot of cash available for deposits.

> The catch-22s are the best. Renting an apartment requires that you have a French bank account, and getting a French bank account requires that you already have somewhere to live in France...

Not specific to France - I had the same experience as a French in Berlin (though it was twenty years ago - it might have changed).

Changed. Does not matter where you send the money from anymore, and european virements are pretty painless.

And same in the UK. Ultimately, it can be worked around if you find the right people in the right mood, but it's insanely annoying.

Sweden was the worst on that aspect. Most owners require that you have a company signing the lease on your behalf (supposedly to guarantee the rent, yet they generally refuse advance payments on the rent).

Same in UK as well, took one month for me to open a bank account after I moved to London. Had to do a driving license + insurance number, nightmare.

Re the catch-22: I wonder the degree to which you're affected by this depends on how seriously you take it (sort of like Kafka's "The Trial"). Could you maybe just supply any address (your workplace, some other contact) and get round it that way? There's still a handful of people who this won't help - folks rich/skilled enough to move countries without having a job or contacts and those unfortunate enough to have fled another and entered as a refugee.

Funny. I had to translate french document to get something from an american bank. Rigidity goes both ways.

Govt bureaucracy, Corporate bureaucracy, they just need to be part of a large enough organization with an insufficient connection to their customer base.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com