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Comment by zaidf | Hacker News Reader

To offer a contrarian view, I have two friends from India this semester who got caught for plagiarizing in their English class. This is just this semester.

I won't make any big judgement calls about international students based on observing my few friends. But hey, it does make me believe that international students are less aware of the consequences of things like plagiarizing. I think they are a little behind on it. For American students, we went through the "dumb phase" of plagiarizing in 6th grade when I remember 90% of my class using the same one source for an assignment forcing the teacher to give an hour long lecture on plagiarizing. She also canceled that assignment. International students, unfortunately, don't seem to have gotten that lesson before coming here. Really unfair for them -- but a win for American education(rare as that may be).

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Based on your experience of two friends from India, you started believing that international students are less aware of the consequences of plagiarizing. Your point is nonsensical on so many levels.

First, since when did 'two friends from India' begin reflecting the attitudes of millions of students all over the world (international), only a fraction of which end up in the US in the first place.

Second, how can you conclude that they were unaware of the consequences of plagiarizing. Maybe they were aware of the consequences, but decided to take a chance anyway.

It seems to be that you are subtly implying that the American education system inculcates some sense of ethics (discouraging things like plagiarism) in the students, which for some inexplicable reason the education system of these international students doesn't. That IMHO is bigoted.

While I agree with your sentiments on a lack of proper data, there is another hypothesis for foreign students, perhaps having a higher rate of cheating. One that is not bigoted at all, and applies equally well to a subset of north american students.

Some cultures, India, China, perhaps others, currently place immense value on education. This brings with it immense pressure. While that can lead to a good work ethic, perhaps the immense pressure can also lead to a higher likelihood of cheating. It's not that these students underestimate the risk of getting caught, but more that they may be more afraid of the reaction of their family or peers back home if they fail.

Getting good grades is not exclusively a result of hard work. Often it can be genuinely challenging. For some international students, failing can mean a loss of scholar ship and thus having to leave back home. For students in China, for example, this may mean a loss of freedom, and certainly a big loss of social rank back home.

North American students studying here may occasionally have a lot of pressure from home, but they never risk being denied citizenship, or being relegated to low paying jobs for the rest of their life with no chance of improving.

In some graduate programs, this fact is occasionally taken advantage of by unethical professors, who can get away with treating their international students poorly.

perhaps having a higher rate of cheating

I had a professor from France this semester. He went on a tirade about how we should cover our papers and not cheat. The whole class(all Americans) seemed pretty lost and could not relate to his lecture on cheating. I see a similar response when mainly foreign professors ask students to switch seats and spread around the room on exam days.

My French professor said when he went to college in the US, he had moments where the professor left the class and my professor(then a student) would look around him hoping folks would "cooperate"(in funny French accent). I'm not sure how much of that was said as a joke but I think the sentiment has at least some truth to it.

I can definitely tell you that while I was in India and my initial few years in the US, I was under immense pressure to perform. That is also when I would be most inclined to do not-so-ethical things. Then over time the pressure goes away and the incentive to cheat does not seem greater than just doing the work or accepting a poor grade.

This was a tongue-in-cheek response to the original article which seems to make sweeping generalizations about American students from the experiences of one professor.

Exactly. The same could be argued about the original author's suggestion that the American education system in-builds laziness while the international system of millions of students does not.

In reality, I wouldn't call it ethics--far from that! American students don't plagiarize (as much) because they know they will get caught and face insane consequences. Indian students(my friends) don't know the perceived seriousness of it so they fail a class they had a 96 in because they plagiarized the final paper. I really pity my friend more than blame him.

Btw, my bias/generalizations are quickly repudiated and doesn't get published in a widely distributed paper for good reasons. The original author gets to make a huge splash. That's the problem.

Also, I split my K-12 education between India and U.S so I have experienced both sides of the education system.

Isn't that his point? That making gross generalizations off a small sample size is ridiculous? That's what I got out of it anyway.

Plagiarizing and cheating are fairly normal and culturally accepted in some parts of the world. For example, if caught cheating in a college in Bosnia, the absolutely worst thing that could happen is that you're not allowed to take that class for 6 months, but it is more likely they would just kick you out and made you retake it.

Isn't the stereotype that India is more "lazy" than China?

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