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Comment by mccada | Hacker News Reader

Some people aren't comfortable with the amount of data Microsoft is collecting about them. There are a lot of privacy issues, and their terms of service are really quite jarring if you read them. Even turning all the the tracking and telemetry off, you cannot be sure they are not collecting your personal data.

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But they were already collecting that data. They're still collecting it on 7 and 8. You almost certainly use several other services that collect the same data, or more. The only reason you think Windows 10 is unique in this is because Microsoft did THE RIGHT FUCKING THING and made their privacy policies understandable to regular people. And they're being criticized and villainized for this. It's childish and indefensible.

Do you have a source for the data collecting for Win 7? Windows 8 is a slightly different story since they incorporated signing into your machine with a Microsoft account, so they have more personal identification linked to your machine (email etc).

Yes other services and companies use your data, including Google and Apple. But these are usually (as far as I know) more annonimized. Microsoft is taking personal data collecting to a new level. From their TOS:

“Microsoft collects information about you, your devices, applications and networks, and your use of those devices, applications and networks. Examples of data we collect include your name, email address, preferences and interests; browsing, search and file history; phone call and SMS data; device configuration and sensor data; and application usage.”

And also:

“If you open a file, we may collect information about the file, the application used to open the file, and how long it takes any use [of]it for purposes such as improving performance, or [if you]enter text, we may collect typed characters, we may collect typed characters and use them for purposes such as improving autocomplete and spell check features.”

There are also reports they are taking sound recordings and webcam captures. This operating system is like an NSA wet dream. If this doesn't make you feel uncomfortable, go ahead and support the new normal. I don't want any part in it.

And not to mention that Microsoft took it upon themselves to use user bandwidth as a way to alleviate stress from their servers.

http://lifehacker.com/windows-10-uses-your-bandwidth-to-dist...

Google collects just as much as Microsoft if not more. If you're using an Android phone with a Google Account then they pretty much know everything about you.

Tu quoque is not an argument.

I guess it's a good thing I didn't use Tu quoque then, now if you'd said I made a Fallacy Fallacy you might be closer to the truth.

I wasn't disputing the op's conclusion, just pointed out the invalid assumption in his argument. Though I could have just dismissed him entirely by saying he made three separate Fallacies of Alleged Certainty. But then I'd be dismissing his statement the way you dismissed mine.

Yet, the fact that Google collects data with Play framework, is not an excuse for Microsoft doing the same, where they historically didn't do it.

That excuse appeared in discussions at HN several times already and compares apples to oranges.

No one is excusing Microsoft, everyone is freaking out and fear mongering about Windows 10 but no one seems to care that the computers we carry around in our pockets daily tracking even more information. People are using their phones more than their PCs these days for internet activities, their phones carry all of their contact information (not just email addresses), they know where we are, where we've been, how active we are, and dozens of other things that PCs don't even begin to track. But no one seems to be outraged about that, they laugh at things like Blackphone and say it's for paranoid alarmists. If we're going to get outraged, lets spread it around and not just hate on Microsoft who happens to be very late to the party.

With phones, it's easy - do not sign in with Google Account. There's no need to flash custom firmware, getting custom hardware, etc. Just do not use your Google Account and be picky about the apps you are going to install.

Yes, it is possible to use Android phone like this. I used it for several years this way - my contacts, calendar and email came from Exchange clone (Kerio) using ActiveSync.

The freaking out regarding Windows is, that you cannot opt out. You don't sign in with Microsoft Account? Does not matter, it will send data anyway. You turn off everything, that is possible to turn off? Does not matter, it will send data anyway. And that's all for something, that was not necessary in older versions - the impression is, that something was taken from you.

See the difference?

Actually it's not that easy because Google Services will transmit data back to Google even if you're not logged in. At a minimum it transmits back statistical information but it's not entirely clear what is sent. Which is just like with Windows 10, we don't know exactly what's being transmitted.

So from what I can tell there is no difference.

If they did THE RIGHT FUCKING THING there would be one giant checkbox that says:

[ ] Do not send any data to Microsoft. Ever.

Alas, they didn't.

A clarification: Windows 7 always collected limited telemetry data, but it wasn't until Windows 8 was released that most aspects of your daily computing experience were collected by default. I believe that some of the more aggressive data collection methods in Windows 8+ have started trickling down to 7 via recent updates though, mostly due to the GWX Windows 10 compatibility checks.

You can block the sites microsoft reports to in your host file, problem solved.

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