So just to be clear, here, you claim to have worked for PGP, so you've been in the security industry at least a day or two, and yet you consider the opinion that the United States cannot possibly be the only bad actor rhetoric? I'm disputing your claim that other Western governments aren't as bad as the United States. Nobody knows that, everybody with half a clue assumes otherwise, and the irony of you going after my lack of substance in doing so is palpable.

I'm going to reiterate, because I can't believe I'm having this conversation: you said, nearly verbatim, the other Western governments do not spy like the United States. And you consider that a sane opinion in the wake of these disclosures, and call me a shill for disputing it.

The retroactive immunity to which you refer is one disclosure we know about. What I was speaking to was President Bush's PSP, which they made a significant effort to satisfy legality on. Everyone is in accord on that: them, Poitras, Snowden. They were wrong, particularly Gonzales, but they still tried to base it in the law until they lost the Justice Department. Even the FISA court is an attempt at legality. I'm not saying I agree, I'm saying the government made a conscious choice to try to play by the rules, even though their rule book was absolutely bananas. I'm making the case that in other governments, that same zeal might not apply, and there are probably governments wherein rights are more freely trampled upon.

Again, that you think I'm a shill for presenting the completely normal security industry philosophy of don't trust anyone is just hilarious. I've been charged with multiple felonies by the United States justice system for CFAA-related offenses and convicted of one. I have the most stake in criticizing the way we do things. You're laying down smoke to cover your own opinions going after my "shill" status, and I want you to know that it's entirely transparent.

Sometimes I think Hacker News is just trolls trolling trolls.