C.H.I.P. – Raspberry Pi competitor | Hacker News Reader

C.H.I.P. – Raspberry Pi competitor

nextthing.co

62 pointsadam_klein39 comments

Open articleView on HN

CHIP on HN:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9513850

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9933226

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9505807

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9831293

I've got a great idea, guys! Let's create a web page for our product, but put absolutely NO information about it on there. After all, who needs to know anything about it?

All we need is a 'pre-order' button that, when pressed, pops up a message telling you that pre-orders don't exist!

There is a lot more information on their kickstarter page. I imagine they're trying to drive people there, since that's how they're getting funding.

Yes, they are driving people there by putting a 'funded by kickstarter!' logo on the page, non-clickable of course.

Even the top-right link to Kickstarter just takes you to KS updates, rather than to the project details...

Seriously, how many people do they expect to visit this site, and from the meagre content on it, decide to pre-order?

The site could be better but it's not terrible. They have $2 million so must be doing something right

It's also really deceiving to put that Gameboy-like button slab and LCD on the web page when what you are really getting is the tiny CPU board at the bottom.

That is pretty deceiving. Having not previously heard of this thing and only looking at the page linked here I thought for $9 you'd get the thing with a screen and buttons. There's even an arrow pointing at it.

They are probably too busy still counting the $2 million dollars they got from kickstarter.

I was, at first, amazed at the price point.

Olimex, who are in a position to know, says that the BOM for this adds up to more than $20.

https://olimex.wordpress.com/2015/06/05/how-to-get-in-the-ne...

So, it's basically a marketing ploy, which is still cool, but they will have to find some way to make up the difference post launch.

The real money in electronics is in accessories. People will pay $25 for a Raspberry Pi and fret each additional dollar, then turn around and pay $20 for a injection molded case for it.

If their strategy is to sell accessories then they $9 could be subsidized in that way.

If you're like me, the $9 gets you in the door, then you load up your cart with everything you want and start thinking about the total price at around $100.

Under $100 I think the typical "has a day job at a startup" technologist is not going to think twice.

They just need to have enough compelling components to get the total order amounts up there.

Assuming they manage to avoid 3rd parties cloning accessories and undercutting on price. That seems to be the pattern in this market.

> The real money in electronics is in accessories. People will pay $25 for a Raspberry Pi and fret each additional dollar, then turn around and pay $20 for a injection molded case for it.

This may be true, but then you should make sure they buy them at your store. I've bought a Raspberry Pi, but case and sd-card were from a different brand. They didn't even have an official case back then. So how does this work? Or do they get a commission for every case? I bet not.

Growth of the ecosystem will feed more growth, and overall, will increase visibility and sales, improving volume pricing...

Yes, but needs to be managed well.

I can't see how it's just a temporary marketing ploy, as your link suggests.

Nobody wants CHIP, they want the "$9 computer". I can't see how they can ever sell it for $39.

As a loss leader, with overpriced accessories - that makes much more sense to me.

I really doubt the BOM cost will be that high when it launches - as Olimex points out, the prices AllWinner quote them make no sense and simply aren't competitive. Why would you use their R8 chip in your IoT device if a previous-generation tablet chip is basically identical and much cheaper?

It might go lower, yes. But, the BOM is just the pile of parts. Doesn't include the board, assembly, etc.

It seems clear the actual cost per unit, even with significant volume, will be substantially higher than $9.

$5, for just the Allwinner chip, without the onboard memory and storage, IS competitive. Since they are using the SOM version with ram+storage, I wouldn't be terribly surprised that just the main chip would be more than $9.

Personally I prefer the orginal Raspberry Pi due to two things.

1) It is a non-profit that has done things I am happy about.

2) It is kind of a standard which allows the sharing of code and parts very easy.

My money goes to Raspberry Pi because it is good at what it does and I like the company.

Good points, but what I like is the C.H.I.P. is VERY open:

http://makezine.com/2015/07/22/with-linux-and-creative-commo...

Indeed, still no sign of Broadcom releasing the full datasheets for RPi's SoCs... AllWinner on the other hand has been far more open with that.

Is there a clear winner in this ranking ? Broadcom have released some documentation on the RPi's GPU while AllWinner have used 3rd party IP that they can't document ({Mali,PowerVR} and Ethernet).

Arguably there is - you can boot these AllWinner chips using entirely open source code, whereas you need a binary blob to boot the Pi at all and the license agreement forbids you from using it on non-Pi Broadcom hardware. Also, the USB interface on the Pi is third party IP from Synopsis that - last time I checked - they can't document, it's incredibly buggy, and Ethernet goes through it too. (Whereas the AllWinner USB host interface is standard EHCI, just like an ordinary PC.)

AllWinner's Ethernet peripheral is also directly connected to the CPU bus, which makes for a huge difference:

http://hardware-libre.fr/2014/06/raspberry-vs-banana-hardwar...

(Look at the network benchmark in particular.)

But how open is it to other open source OS kernel besides Linux? For example, would they send a pre-release boards to FreeBSD or OpenBSD "kernel hackers" if there was interest?

Though it may not be intentional the article seems to have a strong Linux bias.

I want more hardware like this and I always use open source software, but I may not necessarily choose to run Linux. Nothing against it, simply personal preference. I would like to see hardware that can run a variety of kernels.

All fine and good, but you do want at least two competing products to make a better market.

FYI, its Kickstarter page has lots more information than "CHIP does computer things" :)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598272670/chip-the-wor...

Ah, $9 is just a chip, not a pocket chip. What is the pocket chip price?

Its $9 for the board, like you would a Pi board. But then you need stuff like power and maybe keyboard, screen, etc.

$49, as stated on the kickstarter page.

$40. Chip with Pocket Chip was $49 as part of their Kickstarter campaign.

I'm glad I backed it, I wasn't 100% if it was even going to come to a production round, but apparently they just got a batch a few weeks ago.

"World's first $9 computer!" is likely a false statement. Oh well, marketing. Whatever.

I like the pencil stand.

Any more info about the platform? (Processor, memory size, OS, API)

1GHz R8 ARM processor, 512MB of RAM, 4GB of NAND storage, and WiFi and Bluetooth built-in, 4.2 Linux kernel (also joined Linux Foundation)

I'm working on a raspberry pi project right now that would be MUCH better with this. Built-in wifi and bluetooth, battery power, it's a lot smaller... I want this now

There are some alternatives to the Pi, have a look at olimex.com (very open) or hardkernel.com.

https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/open-source-hardwa...

I see that one is 30 EUR, since I'm in the US it would probably not be so cost efficient. The open sourcing is great, though.

The main bonus I get from this CHIP thing is the ridiculously cheap cost for what it gives you. At the very least, the built-in storage and wifi saves at least $15 and some physical space. That's awesome

Wow, this is just amazing. But looks like we have to wait till Feb 2016?

Backers should get by December if all goes well.

Source - am a backer. $9 didn't seem like much to lose.

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