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tptacek

425,700 karma · joined November 1, 2007

Having said thus much by way of introduction, I commit the following to the candour of the Publick.

Helu! I'm Thomas.

thomas@sockpuppet.org

t@tk.inc

(Don't apologize for contacting me! I'm happy to meet you.)

Daily follow list: 'jcranmer, 'rgovostes, 'pvg, 'rgovostes, 'lisper, 'kentonv, 'DannyBee, 'JumpCrisscross, 'kasey_junk, 'tzs, 'dctoedt, 'idlewords, 'carbocation (many others who don't post often enough to call out like this).

All comments Copyright © 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2018, 2023, 2031 Thomas H. Ptacek, All Rights Reserved.

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tptacek··on There are no "rogue" AI agents
However this makes people feel, and that's not nothing and I'm not knocking it, this is not a useful analysis.

Criminally, the intent standards for hacking are high enough that no reasonable case is going to be made against the labs for this stuff. A human being has to intend for websites to get hacked. Recklessness generally isn't enough. In the most severe criminal cases, not only do you have to prove intent to break into a computer, but you also need to prove an intent to defraud specific to that breakin.

Meanwhile, the civil liability that attaches to this stuff doesn't depend on intent, and "rogue agent" isn't a meaningful defense. To whatever extent the labs are exposed civilly, they're exposed regardless of how this stuff is described. In fact, the "rogue agent" thing can exacerbate their exposure.

(I'm not a lawyer, I have spent a career paying attention to this specific armpit of the law though.)

tptacek··on Ten lines of code that changed my world
Hmm. What a great question.

    while(1) { fork(); } 
Must have meant something to me, because it was in my Usenet sig. And then:

    exit(main(kfp->kargc, argv, environ));
from FreeBSD crt0; kind of a big moment for me to realize there was more C code underneath main().

Then:

    statements: /*E*/ | statement statements
The moment Yacc clicked for me; that line was profound but a more accurate depiction of the moment was realizing that all you were doing with the parser generator was building a tree, and that's what the side effects of each production were for: returning and plugging in tree nodes.

If there was a single line I could come up with for "double the size of the hash table when it fills up", that'd deserve a slot here.

Then, of course (we get to cheat because assembly):

    jmp .call
    .pop: pop esi
    ...
    .call: call .pop
The "delta offset" trick, which I believe came from x86 virus culture but was universal in 90s overflow exploits as a way to get position-independent references to strings and other memory things.

For sure:

    void walk(node *n) { if(!n) return; walk(n->left); visit(n); walk(n->right); }
I should figure out a way to fit a write-select(2) into a line because that's another "oh shit" moment for me.

Similarly: when Vern Paxson explained to me that he'd implemented TCP reassembly by simply opening up a file and using "seek" to place incoming segments in the right position. I could probably golf that down to a line! But it would be an annoying line.

tptacek··on Does Georgism work? Five years later
My business partners will chuffed when the vote happens in October or November, whichever way it goes, because this has been siphoning a huge amount of my attention over the last year.
tptacek··on What even is an OS now?
I will not be, because, again, I didn't submit this article here --- what I did instead was write this and then dread what would happen when it hit the front page.

That's not true for all (or even most) of what I write, but it's true this time, and I'm not letting it slide.

tptacek··on Tells of a Slop UI
An "inactive" student is one who is enrolled but is not currently attending classes.

This is a super useful article but a lot of these complaints about things like alignments are also the natural outcome of me, a non-frontend person, building any kind of web frontend at all. So I wouldn't sweat it too much.

tptacek··on What even is an OS now?
It pisses me off (not just for my own site) when people talk as if stories that show up on HN are somehow community property of HN. It's a page I put on my own website. I will make it look any way I fucking choose. People here do this all the time and I can only imagine how alienating it must be to website authors who aren't familiar with our giant clique.
tptacek··on What even is an OS now?
I am dismissive of that point of view, and I'm a "hacker". Not everybody here agrees on everything. I feel like I'm... pretty in tune with HN. Like, I think I could present concrete evidence on that claim.
tptacek··on Does Georgism work? Five years later
People have all sorts of unreasonable expectations and we are not obliged to honor them.
tptacek··on Does Georgism work? Five years later
Well, yeah, that's humanity for you.
tptacek··on Does Georgism work? Five years later
This is well studied, and I don't believe that's true: a luxury development _reduces_ rents in the immediate surrounding area.
tptacek··on Does Georgism work? Five years later
I know that not to be true in my area as well.
tptacek··on Does Georgism work? Five years later
Local politics are very different, especially in responsiveness, to state and national politics.
tptacek··on Does Georgism work? Five years later
People say the same things here, where I know them not to be true, but I don’t know anything about your municipality. I know what the social science says about this, and the common sense intuition that never occurs to people to turn out in favor of apartments they’re not going to live in, but does occur to people who want to stop it. Your mileage obviously varies.
tptacek··on Does Georgism work? Five years later
I’ve since learned that overly online keyboard warriors are the least important people to convince. The most important people are on your local city council or state legislature. Furthermore, instead of wasting time with hard cases or elected officials who are dead-set against your ideas, you’re much better off finding and working with people who are already interested in your principles. This often means giving up on your own city or state, at least for the time being, and pursuing a “succeed anywhere” strategy instead.

We're about to have a board vote eliminating single-family zoning (I expect us to win) and this rings extremely true about local politics. If you count "votes" in Facebook comments --- Facebook is where all our local politics happen --- you'd think this is the most contentious issue in the world. But in our last mayoral election, you'd draw the same conclusion about the race being tight, and in fact the progressive rinsed the moderate by a huge margin.

The same thing is very true of public meetings; the turnout for comment at those things is almost never representative of the area's median sentiment. "No" turns out for everything; "yes" rarely does.

I spend a lot of time in online arguments with opponents, on the theory that I'm not really writing to the person I'm arguing with but rather to everyone quietly reading comments. But it's almost certainly the case that the only conversations that have really mattered have been with electeds themselves.

tptacek··on Early rogue AI agent activity and attempts to hack found on urlquery.net
It depends on the statute, but if you're talking about 18 USC 1030, the standard is intentionality (if not to intentionally access something you shouldn't, then intent to defraud).
tptacek··on Plunging test scores are a slow-moving catastrophe
It's not clear to me why you believe those two claims are in opposition.
tptacek··on What even is an OS now?
No, I'm following society's lead on this one. Maybe people won't want this! Then we'll fail. I'll be fine with that.
tptacek··on Reflections on 1,000 Days of Math
OK, as long as you're clear that this is an indictment of basically all ordinary undergraduate math instruction.
tptacek··on Automattic has a new board after failed attempt to put CEO on leave
It's a valid stance for a random individual, but not for a board member, who assumes additional obligations that are external to their own personal morals. If your morality and your board duties conflict, your obligation is to resign.
tptacek··on Automattic has a new board after failed attempt to put CEO on leave
They're specifically not supposed to represent the interests of a minority of the shareholders!

That doesn't mean they're required to faithfully represent the interests of any one person with majority voting power, but it does mean they can't select some random subset of minority voters and serve them instead.

tptacek··on What even is an OS now?
What's your point?
tptacek··on What even is an OS now?
It is not good to make things ordinary people use hard just for the sake of making it hard, or even in the pursuit of a perceived quality threshold if that threshold is beyond what the users will perceive. The cart is extremely dragging the horse in our field.
tptacek··on What even is an OS now?
When you suggest that ordinary people should not use personal applications that they've built with AI because it robs them of the hacker spirit, that's what you're doing: orienting all of society around your aesthetic preference.
tptacek··on What even is an OS now?
Sure they can. Of course they can. "Computers suck" is practically the motto of the entire field of software security. That doesn't mean they're not fun to work with! Just that they suck.
tptacek··on Reflections on 1,000 Days of Math
Oh, I have no idea if it can help make someone a mathematician. But that's not why engineers study math, right? It's still extremely valuable to be able to do, and to an operational extent understand, advanced math.
tptacek··on What even is an OS now?
I have no idea what this analogy is meant to communicate. If you're trying to suggest that software construction is only intentional or attributable if you write source code by hand, I'll just come back and say you haven't legitimately build anything unless you hex-edited it in machine code.
tptacek··on Automattic has a new board after failed attempt to put CEO on leave
That's sort of true and sort of not, right? He's not in fact "the boss" of the board, though with his voting ability (and that of his committed proxies) he can replace the board instantly.

The board has every right to fire the CEO. That's not at issue. The board could reasonably do that even if the CEO has majority voting control --- iff the board is certain the CEO won't immediately reverse the decision and replace the board. If they fire the CEO performatively (or as a hail mary) knowing the CEO will reverse them, they're causing operational chaos with no upside, and that's not something the board can legitimately do.

There's a subtext in some comments about this that the board can legitimately express a position that it's better that the company not exist than exist with Mullenweg at the helm. That's not a legitimate thing for the board to pursue.

tptacek··on What even is an OS now?
I'm not saying it's not important, just that you can't reasonably expect to orient all of society around it. And that's what we're talking about when we talk about how computing is going to work for ordinary people.
tptacek··on What even is an OS now?
I think you just wrote "lots of things are more important than the hacker ethos, like [axiomatic rederivation of the hacker ethos]". That's not a persuasive argument.
tptacek··on What even is an OS now?
This is obviously false.
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