syrusakbary

It would be nice to see innovation in the Wasm space rather than copying products that already existed before.

Wasmer already launched the exact same product one year ago (Aug 2022): https://wasmer.io/posts/wasm-as-universal-binary-format-part... (BTW, way more performant than the Hermit copy).

The only thing that Hermit does is using APE (Actually Portable Format), which we also analyzed on the second post of the series: https://wasmer.io/posts/wasm-as-universal-binary-format-part..., also published a year ago.

  On one hand, both ape and Wasmer rely on a “universal binary interface” to interact universally with the Operating System: Cosmopolitan (as a universal libc POSIX interface) in the case of ape, and WASI in the case of Wasmer.

This is awesome, great work bugen!

I've created a package in Wasmer [1] to showcase this tool (also, it will do the processing fully sandboxed thanks to Wasm!)... hope you all like it! (here's the PR [2])

  # Install Wasmer
  curl https://get.wasmer.io -sSfL | sh
  # Add ppp alias
  alias ppp="wasmer run syrusakbary/pypipe@0.1.0 -- "

And then, run it normally:

  $ cat staff.txt |ppp 'i, line.upper()'

[1] https://wasmer.io/

[2] https://github.com/bugen/pypipe/pull/2

This might also be interesting to the readers. In Wasmer we recently ported ffmpeg to Wasm/WASIX. It runs fully in both client (browser) and also fully on the server: https://wasmer.io/wasmer/ffmpeg (is multithreaded, all codecs supported)

Here's a video showcasing it! https://twitter.com/wasmerio/status/1687238131395768320

I believe we can bring ffmpeg to any programming language quite easily... stay tuned!

Hi HN!

I'm Syrus, from Wasmer. We worked really hard to make Wasmer Edge available for everyone. We also added support for full Python applications (such Django) which is a first in Edge Infrastructure.

Looking forward to hearing your feedback!

This is great. On a related note, we recently compiled Python 3.12.0 to WebAssembly: using it should shield almost any use case of malicious behavior even on external untrusted modules.

https://wasmer.io/python/python

Run it locally and see that filesystem access and network are completely sandboxed by default! :)

  wasmer run python/python

Please read the comments on other threads https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37558807

I think it would probably take me around two or three weeks max of dedicated time to develop. People in the Zig community were even more optimistic on timings.

The sponsorship quantity is actually based on such estimation

> Wasmer debate on the way and using other engines with WASI or their engine and WASIX

Thanks for bringing this. The runtime will be free, as our monetization plans are outside of the infrastructure. At the end, Wasmer Runtime is way more than just an engine, is a universal API for using WebAssembly. As such, you can even use other engines in Wasmer (such as JavascriptCore [1] or the browser [2]) under the hood.

On top of that, we are also working on WASIX [3] with hopes for being adopted by the community and becoming a standard. WASIX is not something proprietary of Wasmer, even though at the moment we are the only runtime supporting it.

[1] https://wasmer.io/posts/wasmer-3_3-and-javascriptcore

[2] https://wasmer.io/posts/wasmer-js-a-new-hope

[3] https://wasix.org/

> and am suggesting that you do something to make sure your communications are clear

I believe the best way to have clear communication is by having an extra bit of communication when there is any misunderstanding, which is what I'm doing by following up in this conversation. We all have different meaning for words even if they are written the same (you just need to see how the same religious text can have so many different interpretations).

I have done an effort to spend some extra time to explain the things you misunderstood from my communication. For me, that's aiming to have a clear communication. Of course, we don't know each other. So the tone and/or interpretation can vary depending on our feelings of the person.

Let me put a simple example of what I meant: I did stated that "if you care more about the PR stunt I can fully understand your point of view", which is actually quite different to assuming that you "care more about the PR stunt" as you mentioned (there is a big "if" there that somehow you missed). Let me be even more clear of what the "if" meant in my writing:

* if you care about the PR stunt -> I fully understand your point of view.

* if you don't care about the PR stunt -> I don't understand your point of view

As you can see, a thing that was quite clear from my point of view (and I assume for most of the readers), was not clear for you. And I'm not assuming you are a bad communicator, I just assume there was a misunderstanding because we are, in reality, different people with different minds.

In any case, I don't think we make anyone a favor by discussing this more publicly. If you want to have a Zoom chat (because lets be honest, miscommunication is always easily handled via video) about what other things where there might be a misunderstanding, I will be very happy to do so. Please feel free to email me at syrus@wasmer.io

I think you laid out very well one of the issues of the last century in the western culture: PR as a way to help shape the reality rather than accountability through transparency.

Fortunately enough the open transparency strategy has helped us to hire incredibly talented people that couldn’t care less about the PR stunt, and full transparency have helped them understand the reality of complex situations, solving any misinterpretations with clear communication. That’s a culture worth fighting for. Of course, if you care more about the PR stunt I can fully understand your point of view

While I respect their point of view, I do not agree that banning bounties in OSS projects is the right way of approaching it, and as such we haven't complied to it. Specially since this is a bounty for a real need that we have at Wasmer.

Furthermore, we also took their post constructively and added two more points on the bounty issue [1] that we believe should solve most of their concerns:

* Wasmer will manage the work and have at most one person or team working on it at a time. Anyone interested on the work should reply here and organization of the work will be done by the Wasmer team

* Partial work that actually works will be rewarded accordingly (for example, the libc layer, or the Zig layer itself)

Of course, the fact that they banned any further conversation from the disagreement doesn't make specially easy to see if such an approach will be sufficient for them or not.

[1] https://github.com/wasmerio/wasmer/issues/4218#issuecomment-...

Not sure how that slipped through the cracks, but I will handle it directly to make sure the account deletion is properly handled asap.

If you can send me an email to syrus@wasmer.io with your Wasmer username that would be appreciated

Is not a bug bounty and the bounty was placed for a feature we needed at Wasmer, it was not required to be merged upstream in Zig so of course we kept the sponsorship for the work up

Thanks for providing the link, readers can probably judge for themselves by checking the comments there if blocking someone just for having a different point of view was the right thing to do by the Zig leadership team

Context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37545192

What do you mean? We are as compliant with WASI as a Wasm runtime can be. We have tests assuring that for each commit on our repo.

As a matter of fact we pass more tests than any runtime created by the BA as reflected here:

https://wasi.fyi/

That's a bug. The proper link should be pointing to the Wasmer runtime docs. Thanks for pointing this out!

Stating “for some reason” is simply a way to reinforce my full disagreement with the decision of deleting comments, as I don’t think it was the right one. Sorry if that was not clear

You are completely right... we need to improve that!

We are planning to add more languages there once the SDKs are fully ready... stay tuned :)

This is not true.

The $5,000 reward did not required the work to be merged upstream. Please read the rest of the thread

Have you read the issue and other comments on this thread?

We explicitly stated that the work would not be needed to be merged upstream for the bounty to be rewarded (a comment that for some reason the Zig team decided to delete)

We moved the sponsorship to the Wasmer repository, even though the work will need to be in Zig codebase:

https://github.com/wasmerio/wasmer/issues/4218

Agreed

Have you tried creating issues on the Zig repo?

External contributors can’t select the labels of an issue. New issues get automatically tagged.

In the Wasmer repo we can obviously choose the proper label just because we have the permission to do so

This comment might be insightful: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37545637

EDIT: added extra context

> You proposed a change to a repo you do not own

That’s not accurate, your assumption would imply that the bounty would require the work to be merged upstream or reviewed by the Zig team, which was not. The bounty just required to have a working prototype. We explicitly stated that merging upstream was not required

> Even in your new offer it's unclear whether people should make changes in zig (add support for your features in zig) or in wasmer (change the samples to work with the current zig compiler, or build libraries that work with zig) to support your features

That's a fair critique, I'll update the issue to make sure this is clear

It was not required for the PR to be merged upstream for the bounty to be awarded.

This was explicitly stated in a comment in the original issue that for some reason the Zig leadership decided to remove

I respectfully disagree with the take that Bounties damages Open Source Projefts, which I also respectfully communicated to the Zig leadership team.

After my communication they banned me from participating in their community (I quote from them "You're not welcome anymore on our GH repo nor any other community managed directly by us.").

For those interested, we moved the sponsorship work to the Wasmer repo, so those who want to work on it can do it freely.

https://github.com/wasmerio/wasmer/issues/4218

It may be wise to add support for inspection of Wasm modules inside of the Wasmer registry.

You can probably use the Wasmer GraphQL API to easily retrieve them ;)

WASIX may be of relevance to the article https://wasix.org/

What is this article really about? So many details missing about the $70k bill to assume is the wrongdoing of the CEO or company.

The article smells like someone wants to build an argument against Stable Diffusion.

I don't think that any of the arguments on the article hold to imply that Stable Diffusion (company) is crumbling.

As an example, the "I sold 15% of the stake for $100" argument from the previous cofounder doesn't hold unless proven otherwise by a judge. The context always matter: is not the same selling 15% when there were no investors or IP, to selling it under coercion... but that a judge will be way better to assess than people external to the matter.

I wonder what's the gain behind publishing this kind of "yellow" articles (and to whom)

*incredibly inaccurate (oh, subconscious!)