sodapopcan

Read their original message again--you are debating with a self-proclaimed "fucker." ;)

"Whatever it is, it's progress, and we're doing it!"

I understand that, I'm saying that people mis-use them when they mean to use an em-dash. I think I ass-u-me'd a bit too much in my comment.

He says exactly this in the comments on his page. This article is specifically about writing/art.

People seem to LOVE parens, although I was taught that they are almost 100% never the correct thing to use in prose. But apparently "some fucker" will accuse me of being pretentious ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Otherwise, I see people just use a regular dash a lot. I love the em dash myself, but of course stopped using it so I won't get accused of AI (which is sad). It's easy to type, at least on a Mac.

Ahhh makes sense if it's a fork. Odd that it's not marked as one. Sort of an odd thing that you can get associated with a repo you don't even know exists.

Thanks for engaging me and my confusion.

I did. Still 3.

But then I'd ask my original question that I didn't post: how the hell does this repo have 422 contributors?

Is there something known wrong with github rn (aside from everything, I guess)? It claims there are 422 contributors but when you click in there are only three.

> This could be said of any technology or financial instrument.

How so? Computers haven't been prohibitively expensive since what, the 80s? Anyone with access to one could teach themselves to program and make money through free resources (well, you needed to pay an ISP, of course). I did just this back in early web days and wealthy people would to give me their money in exchange for my skills with technology. What am I missing here?

It's like a gun enthusiast throwing a fit because you don't want them to bring their gun into your house. "I get that you find it useful to have a gun at your house, and I understand that we are never going to revert back to the days when guns didn't exist, but we don't allow them in this house."

(and not, I'm not slyly trying to say LLMs are like guns, yeesh)

> He's correct though.

He's correct but it's an irrelevant argument, he's simply making an emotional, and very childish, attack on someone because they don't like the tech he likes. Banning LLMs in your project, regardless of the reason, does not mean you think they are ever going to go away, or even that you want them to.

I'd say the downvotes are for: "No fuckin' shit we can just AI." This is clearly an article about the (and I can't believe I'm saying this) "classic" style of programming from, like, a few years ago. This is clear as day. There is not a single person here who doesn't realize this.

If you really must bring up AI here, a more relevant comment would be how you may over-complicate your AI workflow, over-focus on promots, or something along those lines.

> The whole "90% of my time as a coder is spent typing, so I should optimise my ability to type fast" is so, well, wrong.

This is somewhat misguided thinking in that, while very true that people who care more about their setup than getting actual work done do exist, "Optimizing for typing" really means: "optimizing for how quickly you can get back to thinking."

I've seen some experienced programmers use simple editors extremely quickly and others use IDEs very slowly. This short article does not dive into things like: "Does Bob need to right-click his mouse in the right place and choose 'split vertical' or does he just make that shit happen in an instant?" I've done a lot of pair-programming in my career and many people, even if they are good developers, feel like I'm watching my boomer parents use a computer.

Of course, in the end your output is all that matters (which I realize is the argument of this article), but there is definitely something to being able to use your tools of your choosing efficiently (which it sounds like Bob does).

Sorry for the reply almost two weeks later, I missed when this was posted.

> Most engineers don’t like AI slop, most take pride in their work.

Do you work in an industry that requires good code? Perhaps you are just really talented and gotten hired by companies who demand excellence OR you're just really lucky. I'm a pretty run-of-the-mill developer (I care a lot about my craft but I'm not a "10xer" or whatever) and in my 20 years at, uhm, 5 or 6 different companies (once which was FULL of people who gave a shit), I would not say that "most" engineers don't take pride in their work, not even close. Most just want to finish up and get home.

This is one of those comments where I get your point, but have a couple of big "uhm actually"s :point-up: :nerd-face:

I wouldn't think that COVID is a good indicator as this was in no way typical home-schooling. The vast majority of kids were going to school "online," and not schooled by their parents. They were also largely confined indoors with their families all day and all evening.

I'm having trouble making my other point without slipping deep into trying to define "raising," so I'm just going to hit "reply" here.

You are not.

> if we remove the actual bad thing: smart phones.

That's a tall order, although there are plenty of reports of younger people switching to "dumb phones." I've switched to one myself. But how could you possibly stop it? They are terrible -- now that I don't have one anymore it's insane how many people are constantly staring at their phones, walking on the sidewalk, crossing the street, etc. It's really depressing.

But ya, at this point I don't care if parts of the internet are fine and if I had the power to burn it all down, I would.

Ohhhhh Diag(αt), right. I was almost there but had left the placeholder "Diag(foo)" and never noticed. I now see is why I didn't come up with it first. So close!

> So like I said, he's feeding you what you want to hear at this moment in your life.

Yep! I'm a pretty self-aware dude, I like to think :)

The YouTuber I actually pay attention to is House of El who is an up-and-comer, doesn't pander to either side of the debate, and is very pro-AI software engineer. She also shows her work.

> 2008 sucked and the failure to clean it up and punish the guilty is the road to 2026

I'm in Canada which was not hit as hard but ya, I hope your next administration actually holds the guilty accountable. Though I've seen people loudly argue that will result in an endless war of retaliation? Honestly, I only started paying real attention to American politics in January 2025.

> I don't think the AGI is nigh, it may even be far

Not according to Sam Altman as of today! Just in the nick of time too when the cheap Chinese models showed up! What luck! XD

I have not yet read the article you shared but have it opened in a tab for later. Probably should have waited to respond until later but trying to reduce my screen time today.

Ok ya that makes sense, and makes sense why I get confused. That sort of thing can still happen here, though we can minority and majority governments, and I generally prefer when it's minority, even if my "preferred party I still don't really like" has power.

I have to admit, it's kinda nice to read a comment that's simply complaining about programming language design again. For a second I thought there wasn't even going to be mention of AI, but alas...

I was going to bring this up but was wary of getting too deep into a political hole when I'm not super on US politics (although in the past year and a bit I've been paying way more attention). Mostly, I have no idea what the Republican party will look like post-Trump or how any of that works and it's not clear to me what kind of influence they will have as the opposition next term. The current term has made the democrats look extremely weak.

Although, again, my over understanding of your political system is poor and I just relate it to the one in my country where they hold parliament and hurl schoolyard insults at each other.

> this episode has raised real questions about the durability of the rule of law in this country.

Ya, I'm not American, but I have seen people say "we can vote them out" a few times now. Assuming the democrats take the next election, they are going to have a massive mess to clean up with much of the damage not even being reversible. With peoples' fickle nature and seeming that is a very big right-leaning population in the US, there's a non-zero chance the Republicans just get voted back in four years later. Whose to say?

Every four years!

> Those sorts of numbers apply to the common folk like you and me IMO.

Oh, I understand that. I'm not American, but I know I will still be affected if this all goes bust. I'm not in the best state of mind right now, though, and the thought of everything burning to the ground isn't really concerning me.

Also, interesting article. I was aware about plastics getting shipped to other countries but had no idea they were starting to refuse.

The US has been doing whatever the fuck it wants without listening to its people lately, though.

That, and he has numbers to back up the possible downfall. My issue with AI is how it's used in art and content generation. I resisted it for code for a while, but eventually came around.

> FWIW I avoid AI shills and doomers myself and focus on developing my skills working with the technology.

I did a bit of that but I'm no longer employed and have been taking a break from programming for a few months.

Sorry, you're taking this up way too many notches for me to want to continue this convo. But as I said, I have no interested in defending Zitron in general, I made no claims about him being groundbreaking, and I don't even take him too seriously. I was responding to your points around AI's usefulness and how the discussion is almost always localized around "AI as a software development tool" here on HN. For me he's just a soothing counter-voice to the awful and inescapable hype and doomerism coming straight from the American AI companies themselves (as well as people I've been forced to interact with in the programming community). He does show numbers about why he thinks some of them aren't aren't going to survive. This is all speculative (not sure why I feel I have to say this but I feel I do).

> So then what is the deadline for AI reaching into all these new industries?

Obviously the "deadline" would before the US companies go bust (again, IF they do). And I'm confused about your use of "new" here but I'm going to assume you mean "other existing industries that haven't adopted yet." The discussions around this are that several industries already jumped on AI then walked it back, so it's more that we're already past the "reaching in" stage. I don't have links for you but there have been several articles about companies firing people "because AI" then hiring them back. I suppose AI drive-thru order takers would work as another example. Again, I don't have the numbers on this myself. And again-again, none of this is "in defence of Ed Zitron" or "this is why Ed Zitron is great" or any such thing, but these are the things he talks about (and once again, no, it's nothing groundbreaking).

Ah, well then colour my face red.

And I agree that he says things that are wrong much of the time, but not all the time. I also don't like him enough to care, but I do care enough to bring it up when I see multiple random attacks.

You were just attacking his character without backing it up? Do I not know what an ad hominem is? If that's the case, then that's embarrassing for me. Unless you're saying that your remark doesn't technically bash his character?