Completely different. At least China's rules are technical and can be achieved. Bing, iCloud, AWS, Microsoft office, exchange, Azure are all in China. Of course, whether you want to comply the rules is up to you, but it is doable. Facebook can be in China if they adhere to rules, there were rumors they were going to offer a Chinese version of Facebook but stopped because of backlash, but the point is rule are technical and are doable.
Facebook and Google are still making tens of billions from Chinese advertisers selling stuff on their platform. And China never forced Facebook or Google to sell themselves to Chinese owners, so completely give up control on branding, IP, code, data and all assets etc etc.
US is not even giving you any technical rules to comply with. Tiktok's approach to US is replicate China's rules for foreign internet companies in China. All content moderation done by US employees, US employee work on code and data. Data stored in US based servers. But US companies operating in China, like iCloud, AWS and Azure, US employees can still get access to Chinese data for daily engineering operations, like debugging. Tiktok also offered US government appoint security and natsc officials on Tiktok senior leadership, overseeing all code and data practices. US government have kill switch to shutdown Tiktok if they find anything. Tiktok is perfectly fine with US government implementing the censorship to censor whatever US government doesn't like. These details are equal to China's practices.
But US is not allowing that, it just sell yourself 100% to US owner or get banned. And ban is much more draconian than Chinese ban. Chinese citizens can visit FB using VPN, and companies can transact with FB and Google, hence billions of advertising dollars for these companies. US ban targets all transaction with Bytedance, hence Google, Apple and Oracle are completely geofencing US users that even US user using VPN can't access Bytedance services. And Chinese regulations target specific type of products, Meta's FB main app may not be in China, but FB advertising is. US ban targets Bytedance, the entire company. Capcut, a video editing app is also banned in the US. What data does a video editing app collect? How does a video editing app affect public discourse and opinions? How is Capcut a national security threat? What evidence is there?
US is not offering you a chance to comply, it is offering you a knife to kill yourself, and say here, you got options, why don't u kill yourself. Anyone who think it is not an insult is just, I have no words for you. China gives foreign companies room to live, so your workers have jobs and income, your inventor keep their inventions and private assets. US gives the foreign company two options: either we kill you, or we give you a knife so you can kill yourself. Your workers are out of jobs, what was a comfortable livelihood gone, your inventor's invention is destroyed, you will not get what your invention is worth, your private assets are gone. Or we can take your invention away from you and you lose all control of your baby in the future. If you don't see the difference, I have no word for you.
Sale or ban of all US companies in every country. Imagine u could own the branding, technology, IP, revenue and profits of US companies. Country can use that to massive benefit their citizens, end poverty, hunger, bring free healthcare and education, balance currency and trade, increase tax revenues. All US companies can be Indian, Germany, France, UK, Brazil, all nations in Africa, Middle east companies.
would you say the same thing about Meta and Google? Clearly social media monopoly is not the issue. In fact, USA government want US dominance in global social media, digital world, and digital marketplaces.
Tens of thousands of companies using Tiktok shop or other Bytedance services is suddenly in-operable as well. Jobs loses, layoffs coming.
The power of digital dictatorship, USA government can kill a company, the entire ecosystem, all of the companies, users, entities relying on the digital application and service with stroke of pen. Every country and person on the planet should have vested interest to reduce choke points that can be exploited by USA government. So USA government shenanigans can't just ruin the invention you created, your jobs, your peaceful Sunday.
Not even that, every country on the planet is now greenlighted to force USA companies to sell themselves or banned. Every country on the planet can take control of Apple, Tesla, Intel, Qualcomn, Amazon, Nvidia, Microsoft, Google, Meta's entire company, all assets, branding, IPs, technology, code, patents, cash in accounts. Everything is up for grabs. Countries can use it to help their citizens by so much, they can end hunger, end poverty, end homelessness, enable free health care, free education, balance currency and trade, elevate tax revenues, end deficits. Protection of inventor's idea, work and assets is not important. Protection of private asset is not important. Supposed communist China only does 50% JVs, and allow foreign owners control of brands, technology, IPs, revenue and profits. The supposed capitalist USA is 100%.
Yes, I dispute, because all of that are lies and brainwashing done by USA government. Please show prove of 1 million Uyghur locked up in China, genocide. Or you should apologize for your lies to the world. You say there is genocide in 2018, now is 2024, where is the bodies, people desperate to escape? Ur ambassador to China spent his time riding on Chinese bullet trains funded by Chinese government and vacation in the country, instead of going to Xinjiang and rescue all the 1M Uyghur people locked up camps?? What is your military doing? Should you save these poor people? Xinjiang is free for anyone to travel. People are allowed to freely leave and enter with all its neighboring countries. And USA say they love the Uyghur people, and the way they show their support is ban all the products, every single one, made by Uyghur people? Lol, you are not fooling anyone here. It is a fact Uyghur people can freely leave China if they want. And it is a fact, Uyghur population increasing faster than the broader population. And u can travel in Xinjiang today, there is Uyghur language everywhere, on shops, street signs. Uyghur language is taught in every government funded schools. Did the American boarding schools for native Americans teach their own language? Today, Uyghur kids are running in the streets, freely, speaking in Uyghur. Why don't you get all the countries you listed to form coalition army to save the poor Uyghur souls? Your government officials should not shake Chinese government official hands and travel on Chinese government trains to vacation in the country. No more talking, only action.
Why not just nuke China then, without these pesky 1.4B people, the world will be a much better place! Otherwise, you are stuck with us, we 1.4B people will never leave this planet. So it's up to you if you want to convert 1.4B of us to your enemy or your friends. But so far, with all the attacks, bullying, theft you are doing to Chinese people, you are not wining any hearts and minds here. Believe it or not, a lot of Chinese people like the USA before 2016. Then with every attack, insult, theft, oppression you are pulling, you are converting your fans to people who despise you. Huawei's executives used to be biggest cheerleaders of USA. Bytedance founder and nearly all Chinese entrepreneurs loved the USA. Now with you stealing their asset, blackmailing, terrorizing them in broad daylight, people are shocked this is the true DNA, color and culture of USA. Protection of private assets? Nope. Freedom of speech? Nope? Humanity, reason, logic, love, trust? Nope? Pursuit of happiness? Nope. Human progress? Nope. Making all people on Earth's lives proper, no poverty, no starvation? Nope. It turns out USA is the biggest pirate, oppressor, dictator, bully in the world. USA say u care about human rights and freedom, what would democratic international relationships? What about the rights and freedom of 1.4B Chinese people to survive, live in dignity, peace, relative prosperity? And spare me Chinese people getting richer is bad thing for the USA. USA companies made trillions of Chinese market and 1.4B Chinese consumers. You only have this market if Chinese people have money. Your companies are stupidly rich and powerful. If you don't think Chinese people benefit your companies, please ban all of your companies from selling to Chinese market. Please no more all talk, no action, ban them now.
USA should ban the air, because the air is breathed by Chinese communists, the air is tainted with communism. The air could influence how American people think, could infect them with disease, cause people to be sick or death. This is a national security threat, USA government must ban the air.
Or the Chinese government can do its citizens a favor for forcing Apple, Tesla, Walmart, Starbucks, Johnson-Johnson, and all USA companies to sell itself to the Chinese people. So your suggest for how to deal with a pirate and terrorist is to bow down and pay the ransom. Got it, let's do that to you then. Could it be the inventor of Tiktok, who are Chinese citizens don't want their assets to be stolen by USA?
In fact, all countries in the world, USA just showed it is perfectly fine to steal a foreign companies' asset. Let's do that to all USA companies, Apple, Amazon, Nvidia, Tesla, Boeing, Qualcomn, Intel, all of them. U know how rich you will be if you just got a piece of them? U know you could end homelessness, poverty, balance trade, stabilize your currency, elevate tax revenues, get free education and health care for your citizens, provide great jobs if you just got a piece of USA companies? Now you can! All of them can be Indian, Germany, France, UK, Poland, Brazilian, Mexican, Canadian, Kenyan, Egyptian companies. Everyone gets a piece, everyone gets them equally, everyone will benefit and be happy!
There is limitation of foreign control of all foreign companies in all countries. USA companies can stay in the world markets if it sells itself to owners of that country. All USA companies, Apple, Amazon, Nvidia, Tesla, Boeing, Qualcomn, Intel, all of them, can be Indian, Germany, France, UK, Poland, Brazilian, Mexican, Canadian, Kenyan, Egyptian companies.
Cool, so is all US companies in all other countries around the world then, no protections. All countries in the world, USA just showed it is perfectly fine to steal a foreign companies' asset. Let's do that to all USA companies, Apple, Amazon, Nvidia, Tesla, Boeing, Qualcomn, Intel, all of them. U know how rich you will be if you just got a piece of them? U know you could end homelessness, poverty, balance trade, stabilize your currency, elevate tax revenues, get free education and health care for your citizens, provide great jobs if you just got a piece of USA companies? Now you can! All of them can be Indian, Germany, France, UK, Poland, Brazilian, Mexican, Canadian, Kenyan, Egyptian companies. Everyone gets a piece, everyone gets them equally, everyone will benefit and be happy!
All countries in the world, USA just showed it is perfectly fine to steal a foreign companies' asset. Let's do that to all USA companies, Apple, Amazon, Nvidia, Tesla, Boeing, Qualcomn, Intel, all of them. U know how rich you will be if you just got a piece of them? U know you could end homelessness, poverty, balance trade, stabilize your currency, elevate tax revenues, get free education and health care for your citizens, provide great jobs if you just got a piece of USA companies? Now you can! All of them can be Indian, Germany, France, UK, Poland, Brazilian, Mexican, Canadian, Kenyan, Egyptian companies. Everyone gets a piece, everyone gets them equally, everyone will benefit and be happy!
All countries in the world, USA just showed it is perfectly fine to steal a foreign companies' asset. Let's do that to all USA companies, Apple, Amazon, Nvidia, Tesla, Boeing, Qualcomn, Intel, all of them. U know how rich you will be if you just got a piece of them? U know you could end homelessness, poverty, balance trade, stabilize your currency, elevate tax revenues, get free education and health care for your citizens, provide great jobs if you just got a piece of USA companies? Now you can! All of them can be Indian, Germany, France, UK, Poland, Brazilian, Mexican, Canadian, Kenyan, Egyptian companies. Everyone gets a piece, everyone gets them equally, everyone will benefit and be happy!
lol, abortion is perfectly legal in China, the government doesn't control women's bodies.
Certain policies are more set and less up to discussion after a period of experimentation. Political system in China is more geared towards not letting human or interest groups desires reflected in national policies. Instead, national policies reflect the common good and common sense. And political system helps to unify common sense, values, individual knowledge. There is healthy level of diversity, but also a necessary level of unity to prevent extreme polarization, left and right fighting.
For example, no prostitutions, human trafficking, surrogacy, so women from disadvantaged communities are not taken advantage of after decades of that happening in Qing and ROC era. Instead, they are given opportunity to have a proper education, such as in STEM. And they have the opportunity to work in 5G, AI, semiconductors, EVs, batteries, medicine, which interestingly, USA government doesn't want Chinese citizens to work on. U accuse China has no human rights, but China moved from the country with the worst women's rights to one amongst the highest amongst East Asian countries. In my view, women's societal standing in China is equal or higher than South Korea and Japan. And leaps better than India, the largest "democracy" and country closest to China's level 100 years ago.
No drugs, harsh on drug trade, production. So disadvantaged communities are not exploited by drug dealers. We will not let what is happening in the US with fentanyl crisis happen to us. U accuse China caused US"s fentanyl crisis because we make the drugs. Lol, so if we make the drug then why don't we have fentanyl crisis? Shouldn't be its much easier to sell and traffic it where it is produced? Drug issue is a demand problem, there is a demand in the US, no matter how much you squash the supply, people will find a way to make it. U need to end it at the demand side.
Climate policy is set now, no debate on some company can get lax air pollution policies to help their bottom line.
Economic policy is free market, center right, but with basic social safety net in health care, pensions, poverty, high level of social safety net in education, security, crime levels.
We worked hard to lower the price of solar panels, so the world has an alternative energy source in age of global warming. Yet, u accuse us of evil intent to dominate and overcapacity and now expanding hydrocarbon production. So, is global warming not an issue anymore? Or was global warming a narrative used to attack China? The reason we worked hard on lower price of solar is in a perfect free market, solar has to compete with coal and natural gas. And it takes technology and innovation to reduce cost. Cost reduction is a good thing, Moorse law is also cost reduction, if we don't have cost reduction, we will still be using Pentium 3s. So, sorry a lot of solar companies went down, because they can't compete on technology, supply chain, and manufacturing. Ur competitor is not Chinese solar companies, ur competitor is cheap coal and gas. Unless ur solar industry is banking on government subsidies for the rest of their lives. But wait, I thought the west is against government subsidies.
U say Chinese government stifles many creative outlets. When Chinese people work on, dream and create 5G, tiktok, DJI, EVs, solar panels, batteries, semiconductors, AI, phone apps, games, USA is attempting to kill them all, taking away Chinese people's freedom, rights to survival, development and dream. So Chinese people can only do certain things approved by US government? The only thing we approved to do is to overthrow our own government? Or civil war in our country? Or have our country broken into many pieces? Everyone has the right to pursuit of happiness, not Chinese people according to USA.
And how interesting the West is stifling Chinese speech by saying their Chinese propaganda? Speech is "free" if it agrees with West narrative, it is propaganda when it does not.
I used to admire the USA, but not these days. When Chinese people are doing better, being empowered, USA 's response is to attack, oppress, sabotage Chinese people's livelihood. Instead of "it's nice to see good human progress", "we have trade and commerce disputes, but let's resolve that by making the pie bigger for everyone". Tesla and Apple can sell their products without government led market and non-market obstruction, let me know if I can buy a BYD or Huawei in the USA. And US import tariffs of Chinese goods is now much higher than the reverse.
USA accuse us stealing your jobs, no, your own companies shipped these jobs overseas, you should ask your own companies, not attacking some mom and dad working in factories to support their kids in another country. USA is already the richest country on Earth, your problem is most of your wealth is concentrated on top 1%, instead of distributing your wealth better, or help the people in need, you attack regular mom and dads' livelihoods in another country, making them not able bring food for their families. And most people cheer for this and think it is moral? Great values you got there.
The only leg up ccp gave is providing the consumer market for solar, and just let all solar players brawl in the market. And the government standards kept going up to force manufacturers improve their products.
The extremely tough competition in Chinese market meant they worked extremely hard. First Solar would not have survived if they are in the same competition in China.
And did the Chinese stole IP from Americans that Americans don't even have? What does it take for people to understand Chinese people are people too, they are just like you, living and breathing human beings. No one is inferior, no one is dumber. People can be as just as capable.
I can also say industrial policy will fail. The primary reason Chinese companies, like solar and EVs, are where they are now is because extreme hard work and competition. The best thing happened to Chinese EV industry is inviting Tesla into the market, and everyone tried to create a more competitive product and leapfrog Tesla. Westerners say Chinese ppl don't like foreign companies and are nationalist is brainwashed by western media. Domestic brands are considered inferior, Tesla hold the prestige. But as companies are coming up with more leapfrogging products they are changing people's perceptions and mindshare. The biggest thing for domestic car companies they seem to successfully transformed Chinese people's perceptions of Chinese brands. People are no longer mindless envy international brands. If you seen how hard they worked, you will appreciate. They make Elon musk's hard work look easy. They won it fair and square. And they are not against just Tesla, in luxury segment, they are against BWM, Mercedes, Porsche. In mainstream, Ford, GM, Toyota. Decades of brand prestige and reputations.
and first solar is definitely being propped up by the US government. Longi's products can be more expensive than first solar's and there is still no reason to choose them. It just a better product
But Chinese solar companies do have the best products. Longi ships panels with 25.4% efficiency today. First solar's best is 19.7%. That is a multiple generation gap. And longi is on track to go commercial tandem cells that have over 32% efficiency. There is no reason to choose First solar over longi in free competition. First solar has market share entirely due to non-market barriers, like tariffs, non market access, political connections, unfair subsidies.
Please show the news of several Chinese HSR fatal accidents, except the 2011 wenzhou hsr accident which happened during the early days of operation that everyone knows about, and it has been a decade since.
"For political reasons the quality of the HSR wheels in China took a sharp downturn so expect more accidents in the coming two years." if this doesn't happen, are you going to apologize for your lies, propaganda, defamation?
Microsoft has the most monopoly. Bundle azure with office365, bundle teams with office365, bundle windows with azure, pushing bing, edge, OneDrive on windows. Why no one investigate them? Because they stay under off consumer minds, and has good lobby
Nope China won't do that, we are not this low. We will do it the hardest way, our people are hard at work to develop the tech and supply chain. We will foster the talent, commercial flywheel in this space.
Lol nope, ppl still think Huawei AI chips are made by tsmc? Huawei will get even more orders now. And these smaller AI chips makers could already have plans to shift domestic 7nm given the crazy US government, who knows if they would one day wake up and force an embargo or not. Contingency plans are in place may already in execution. All this does is continue to kill any US believers in China and maybe rest of world that US is friendly and benevolent, that there is free trade, collaboration of commerce. US will weaponize tech and supply chains against you, there is no international rules here, US is the dictator, their way or the highway. US will force other places around the world into its bidding. Everyone should reduce reliance on USA, at least have some level of self control so US can't blackmail you one day. Who knows who is in charge of the US government one day and what happens in US politics. Will you let critical aspects of your national economy and people's livelihoods dependent on the whims of bombastic US politicians? Like, all the Chinese entrepreneurs believing in the USA got their face slapped by the US government for past 6 years. Anyone who still trust the US, and get their face slapped get no sympathy. US government told you what may happen.
Brainwashed with what. All I can see is people are brainwashed to believe Chinese ppl bad, Chinese ppl are spies, a tiktok office is an evil spy outpost. The evil commmies from China are going to spread the red scare everywhere. We need to drop the iron curtain now!
yes, Chinese ppl are Chinese spies. This is Western values. Chinese ppl also breathed the same air, you want ban that too? It is national security risk, you are breathing the same air a commie just breathed. I find it really interesting how ppl can just think "could", I feel you watch too much war movies. Talk to real people more, I think you will find that ppl are more the same than different, and we all want peace, good life, that is it.
Oh all Chinese are spies. China can turn cars into killing machines, Westerners really watch too much science fiction and cold war movies. This never crossed our minds this could be a thing and no one is this boring and morally bad to do this. But seems Westerners really like to entertain these ideas.
What are you talking about? You can import stuff to China right now, most stuff import tax is 10%, much lower than USA's tariff on Chinese goods at 25%. Apple has been selling made in India iphone in China, Nike selling made in Vietnam shoes in China. Apple, Tesla have very large market share in China. Intel, Microsoft, Cisco, Oracle, Amazon sell software, networking equipment, Cloud computing, databases, the stuff that is security sensitive to China and Chinese government. Where is the reciprocal access for Chinese companies to US market? Can BYD, Huawei sell to US? Can companies like Wuxi apptec, CATL, Gotion, DJI do business with US partners without absurd political witch hunting, discrimination, bans, sanctions? Mind you these companies are wanted by US companies, and they hire American workers with American offices. Tiktok pays a lot to US employees right? China also hosted a lot of trade shows year around and American companies can freely participate in them, sell and importing stuff to China. Where is the non-discriminatory business environment for Chinese firms? China imported $2.8 trillion of goods in 2023, 2nd highest in the world, China has 0% tariffs with many countries as part of free trade agreement, what is this? Isn't this not market access? What are you talking about. Apple, Tesla, Nike, GE, cisco all get non-biased if not halo marketing in China. Please proof where Chinese government is attacking them like US government is attacking Huawei, Wuxi apptec, DJI, and huge number of Chinese companies too long to list.
hmm, china is perfectly happy to buy any semi fab tools from Western companies, 40% of ASML sales is to China. The fact that none semi tools company were any significance before the US sanctions is the proof of that. Not only are the patents, the market, talent, money isn't there to make it a sustainable business. But u block the sale, and go max pressure, u create a huge incentive. The engineers in these companies are super happy. Now, in 2024, Chinese semi fab tools companies are moving up to near top 10 global fab tool companies. I have no doubt we will see DUV and EUV fully running on commercial fab lines in the next few years.
"China doesn’t have have that either—the optics (mirrors), the light source, the masks, everything under vacuum" are you really sure about that?
Let me help you here, a lot of this stuff are in Chinese universities. But not commercialized, cuz there is no commercial fly wheel when there are perfectly fine products on the market. Now you just gave $1B dollars to these researchers to bring it to market. This will take time, but this is an engineering, iterate and trial problem, not inventing quantum mechanics. The demand is always there, people who get it get a life time of wealth, what do you think?
losing money because of heavy competition, because of free market, too much competition. not because some evil intent to sell below cost. Every auto exec is complaining the market is too tough.
lol, china is doing good in keeping up with llm development, Huawei is happily building AI processors in Chinese fabs and selling them equal the price as Nvidia chips. Huawei profits exploded this year, I wonder why. This article is a joke. US should sanction tsmc as it's caught breaking sanction. Chinese semi tools company revenue is exploding. We will see in 10 years. Also China is driving human prosperity. 1.4b people live in healthy lives, life expectancy is higher than US, a farmer's kid can grow up and working on 5G technology, funny is the US that stops and punish a Chinese person work on 5G, AI, EVs. What happened to freedom of pursuit of happiness and everyone is equal? On the economy, people say China doesn't bring prosperity, China bad, then tell Apple, Tesla to not sell in China, phone up Elon and Tim.
US starts trade war, banning Chinese industries, weaponize supply chain, exchanges, collaboration in attempt to destroy Chinese economy, cause 1.4B to go back to proverty. What is US' aim here? Make 1.4b ppl suffer so they will listen to US's demands? To prove a political point? Please tell me is there any Chinese person US haven't attacked? US only loves Chinese if they are dissidents because they help the US destroy China from within. Chinese person just make up a story China government did something bad to me and they get an invitation to Congress. And Congress has stopped even pretending they care to help these Chinese anymore, they use this to justify more attacks on Chinese people and make more Chinese people suffer. US government: yes we care about Chinese ppl and that's why we ban all of their products, destroy all their labor, now these Chinese are jobless can't afford food on the table, what? The supposed solution to lack of freedom is more bans and oppression.
We can build a prosperous, mutually respected, win-win world today, no conflict, no attacks, no suffering, if US allows it to be. You are attacking people, and you can stop. Did we steal 5G, did we steal EV batteries? Last I heard Huawei is paying billions to Qualcomm for 5G patent licenses, dispute can be negotiated with good faith and mutual respect. But it doesn't work if one party just to demonize you and want you dead so he can be only kid in the block. China does want to buy US goods, but the one we want to buy you don't sell. We are happy to pay 10k for Nvidia chips but you stopped selling not us. World is large enough for US and China to both succeed.
USA, fabricate and peddle lies, brainwash the public. Then economically and diplomatically coerce everyone on Earth. USA is a global propagandist and a global dictator, forcing everyone to bind to its will. Listen to me and do what I want or else.