81 karma · joined April 6, 2017
A former player. I'm not regurgitating the blog post, I'm regurgitating what the players themselves said. The AI got beaten by pro teams (top <<1%), but the matches were competitive in the early game, and only later did the bots run into trouble. To give a couple of specific examples of novel behavior, the AI figured out a solid deathball strategy and was able to exploit that to beat a lot of teams, it liberally used fortify to protect creeps and sustain pushes, and it was way more aggressive in rotating its supports to critical lanes in the early game. Now, no single one of those things is entirely novel, but the combination of all of them (especially by a machine that learned it on its own) is what is novel, and what allowed the strategy to be successful.
> The hero pool is still 18 heroes. Dota 2 has over 110 heroes. Can you please try to think what makes you say something so wrong with so much confidence?
Admittedly this was a mistake, the language they used in their blog post was "Removed our last major restriction from what most pros consider 'Real Dota” gameplay'", which is poorly explained and made me think the hero pool was entirely open.
DotA is basically 2 games, the drafting part and the gameplay part. The bots made huge progress in figuring out the gameplay part, which is super impressive.
>> Casters don't count as serious players.
Maybe we're using different language. The casters are definitely in the top 1% of players, or more, which I consider "serious", but not "the best". But no one was arguing that the bots are "the best", which is self-evident from their loss at the International.
Anyways, this is all beside the point. What OpenAI was able to do was really impressive and is only helping to advance the state of reinforcement learning. You argued that there's nothing impressive about what they've done, but I'd love to see you point me to an example of an ML algorithm that learned to play a team game as complex as DotA at a competent level.
The bots were routinely pulling off coordinated team behavior that players couldn't figure out, but that worked. This has to qualify as complicated.
>> Dota 2 game was not played. A tiny subset of the game was attempted. Since people seem to be just buying whatever OpenAI propaganda sells them, let me be specific: only 18 heroes are in the game. The combinatorics explode when you go from 18 to 110. Go on a 5x5 board is a joke compared to 19x19 Go. This is not hard to understand.
Already mentioned that the hero pool has been opened up. Along with the removal of the other restrictions (invincible courier, items) this is basically pure DotA.
>> Just because OpenAI Five appears to play Dota 2 (still doesn't beat any serious players though) doesn't imply anything fundamental about tactics beating strategy.
The bots beat a team of 5 casters (granted, with some of the older restrictions in place) who are individually in the top 1% of DotA players by MMR.
You're flat out wrong or at the very least inaccurate in all three statements that you made.
In the cartoon, the scientists are making multiple comparisons which is something strictly forbidden in frequentist hypothesis testing. One way to get around it is to apply a correction by dividing the significance theshold ("alpha") by the number of comparisons being made, in this case 20. The cartoon does not state it's actual p-value as most journals will require, but the hope would be that by dividing by the corrective factor the significance of that particular comparison goes away.
So p-value methods still lead to a lot of Type I and Type II errors, but in the past they have been the best science has been able to come up with. Actually, probably the greatest issue with false results in the scientific literature is that null results are not publishable. This leads to a case where 20 scientists might independently perform the same experiment where the null is true, for only one to find a significant result. The demand for positive results only acts as a filter where only Type I errors get made! This is just one problem with the publishing culture, and doesn't take into account researchers' bias to manipulate the data or experiment until p < .05.
An alternate approach to the frequentist methodology of using p-values is the Bayesian method, which has its own problems. First there are practical concerns such as choosing initial parameters that can affect your results despite sometimes being arbitrarily chosen, and also the high computational demand to calculate results (less of an issue in the 21st century, which is why the method is seeing a revival in the scientific community). Probably their main problem right now is that practitioners simply aren't familiar with how to employ Bayesian methods, so there's some cultural inertia preventing their immediate adoption.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-uber-a-friend-or-foe-of-carn...
>> 1. Smart, capable students have the "inferiority complex" of being surrounded by CalTech, USC, UCLA. They know they need to push harder to have equal footing when stepping into the industry.
I just ended my graduate studies at a UC school and had some miscellaneous encounters with CSU students, both undergrad and graduate. I found that for the most part they were just as capable as many UC students, but what set many of them apart was their maturity. This may be because many of them came from unconventional backgrounds, they were either lucky to be attending college or were attending college later on in life. At the same time, a lot of them felt like UC was a more legitimate college, or that they were somehow less intelligent because they were going to a state school.
Just some of the issues I've encountered running python workshops. Linux and Mac users have far fewer issues.
EDIT: Of course, we would have to significantly alter the albedo, which is probably not possible with rooftop panels alone.