nicoco

It is sad indeed that the development of clients relies on the volunteer work of a very limited group of individuals, mostly explainable by the lack of "hype" around Jabber/XMPP.

FWIW it's been smooth-sailing for me and my non-tech family and friends for many years now. BTW, OTR is deprecated, and OMEMO just works.

This project looks promising too: https://prose.org/

> Windows, where most people live

Most people live on their smartphone for IM these days, at least in my circles. I have been surprised by how few people are actually interested in getting a chat app on their "real computer".

They use private custom extensions that makes it non-trivial to federate with XMPP unfortunately. I haven't followed closely what's happening with this DMA but I wouldn't get my hopes up about XMPP being chosen for anything, sadly.

Not sure about _everything_ but it is already in use for notifications on Nintendo Switch, Fortnite group chats, WhatsApp... Of course, none of these are federated or mention XMPP anywhere, but it tells something about the intrinsic qualities of the tech IMHO.

https://xmpp.org/uses/instant-messaging/

https://xmpp.org/uses/gaming/

Google talk was XMPP-federated for a while (but never upgraded to good practice such as using basic encryption...), and while you could connect to Messenger via an XMPP client, they never enabled federation.

Do not trust the FUD.

I've been using XMPP since I had a smartphone (I was late to the party, around 2015) and never needed a persistent connection or had issues with multi-device use. https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html solves both and the first version is from 2012.

E2EE via opengpg has been there since the beginning of XMPP, and via OMEMO (signal-like) for 7 years now, just like HTTP file upload.

I never needed to set up firewall to fight spam, but maybe I was just lucky. I think https://xmppbl.org/ via https://modules.prosody.im/mod_muc_rtbl is the way to go to fight spam if you plan on hosting public groups.

iOS is not indie-dev-that-does-not-want-to-monetize-friendly and I believe this is the cause of this struggle. Siskin and Monal are iOS clients that solved the issue apparently.

Since we're recommending clients, Quicksy (basically the same as Conversations) is great on Android to be close to the UX of Whatsapp, Telegram and Signal (your ID=your phone number + autodiscovery of contacts). I don't want it for myself (phone number as ID? yuk), but I think it's underrated as it seems to fit what a lot of non-techies actually want.

That's true for Matrix, not XMPP.

Shameless plug: once prosody is up and running, add some gateway components to use your xmpp clients to chat with those still jailed in walled gardens such as WhatsApp, telegram, signal, discord (and a few other more): https://slidge.im

> at least as significant as — if not more than — agriculture

Are there really people out there who believe that? I mean, agriculture was a BIG BIG BIG deal for humanity, it is not unreasonable to thing that this will have been out biggest deal.

If you are serious about needing e2ee, using few sessions (well, devices) and actually verifying fingerprints OOB is a must, and that's true for all E2EE methods AFAIK?

Oh yes, more e-waste, more consumerism. We don't have enough of those. Sending text messages and viewing images requires a 90's supercomputer. It's fine.

It's also possible to not be religious about it. Git is distributed. I have projects on srht and contributing does not mandate using the send-email workflow. "Push it somewhere and let me know where I can pull" always works too.

Top posting is so common that I often receive "you replied with an empty email" when I try to bottom post. I think some clients (maybe outlook?) will just automatically fold everything below a quote, resulting in my recipients not even notifying that there are replies below the quoted parts. I have given up.

The downvote button apparently means "j'aime pas les arabes".

Doesn't "lots of land" works for the US too?

Leader in German is "Führer". Isn't that offensive too?

Just to be clear, I'm not even against ditching the master/slave terminology, I'm a privileged white cis man and I think we have to listen to all the oppressed groups.

Bigger servers?

Try organic maps.

I think it's mostly through server side archives that chat history is kept in sync between devices nowadays

https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

There are things you cannot do with numpy and that numba helps with, eg a custom PDE solver where you cannot avoid iterating over arrays' elements.

IRC is great! I access through the excellent biboumi gateway, which offers bouncer-like functionality and let me choose between various clients. There are open instances available for everyone to use, although I couldn't give a list of them since I self-host. I like that it's very lightweight, making it a reasonable permacomputing approach to group chats.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it's the only viable chat protocol, if you follow the link below you'll guess what I have in mind saying that. (it starts with an X and ends with two Ps)

https://biboumi.louiz.org/

(replying here because too deeply nested to answer on the comment)

> When did asking "how do we know" become forbidden in science?

What has been forbidden exactly and are you sure we are "in science" here?

> You are exhibiting a deplorable behavior here, equating questioning of a scientific hypothesis with creationism dogwhistling.

Let me sum this up. Asking "how do we know?" with a hidden agenda is OK, but asking "what do you have in mind exactly?" is "deplorable behavior" and should be... "forbidden"?

OK, troll, bye bye.

Agreed. But that sounded like creationist dog whistling to me, and I'm curious why OP doesn't want to be explicit about what he thinks. Being explicit usually leads to improving the quality of a discussion IMHO.

OK, so what is your favorite explanation then? You seem to imply /something/, maybe just be explicit about it?

Are you implying that the only viable theory is that of a creator god to you or do I not understand your post?

Doesn't seem that much tinfoil hat to me. The Snowden leaks taught us that a bit of tinfoil hatting is reasonable. Before we had access to so many cop video footage, the ideas that they were the bad guys and did stuff like actually being the guys who attack and break stuff during protests were considered crazy. Etc, etc.

Hyper ones.

> Even in Linux there were tools to sync gnome with QT look

There are still such tools, you don't have to use the past tense here.