markdotto

Yup, loving that we're getting rid of stuff out of the core. Definitely a major focal point of mine to date.

I struggled with making this decision, but ultimately it's all about readability for me. Hope it's not too much of a hassle for folks, but that's why this happens in a major update and not minor ones :).

I mentioned it before, but we didn't have an Octocat on the homepage before this.

The last version of our homepage never had an Octocat on it :).

It does use Sass, but was released after Bootstrap.

Later this week.

That's an understandable point of view, save for the waste of time part, but it's not the use case they're targeting (I think). Ratchet I feel is primarily for folks who don't use Interface Builder, who aren't engineers, and who just want to test stuff out really quickly and efficiently (with HTML and CSS). Great for designers like myself who aren't as tech saavy but know the ins and outs of simple code like HTML and CSS.

As is the case with just about every other application, project, framework, and sexual intercourse: there are many ways to do the same thing and not all of them work for everyone.

Thanks for this! We're still waiting on a few changes before we do anything with hosting the old docs, so thanks for helping out in the interim :).

There should be no problems upgrading from 2.1.2 to 2.2.0—no features were removed and none had their classes changed.

Sorry for the bug on this one—we're aware of it and will try to push out a quick fix shortly. Thanks!

Mattia DMed me about this earlier today asking if it could be included in the Bootstrap core. For the time being, I've decided against it as it's another custom form element and we're not implementing anything like that at this point.

That said, if any iOS style switches were done very well, we can explore adding them down the line. I'm not against them 100%, but custom form elements can get tricky. I'm not going to discourage their development—tons of folks have created their own implementation of this. I look forward to them improving over time.

Looking at this again, I'll try to shoot him some feedback so he can improve them and we can get closer to a solution that's fit for the Bootstrap core.

Thanks man, appreciate that, and I hear you. I tried to maintain my cool and approach it as diplomatic and honestly as I could. This has been brewing for awhile and we have never responded, so I wanted to give as much context as possible. There is still much that could be said, but we'll save that for another time. I truly think all of us are just interested in making stuff on the Internet, and that's all I really care about: making awesome stuff with awesome people. Thanks again. <3

Hey Bryan, good to hear from you again. It's been roughly two years since we even spoke to each other, let alone saw each other in public. Before I dive into it, I have always and will continue to always have nothing but the best wishes for ZURB. Now, to get to it.

You did teach me a lot, Bryan, and I know the (edit: removed the number) ex-ZURBians would agree with you on that. You taught me about design process, design thinking, and how to communicate well with clients and other designers. Moreover, if you hadn't brought me out to California, I wouldn't be where I am today. Thanks again for that, I really do owe you one there. You taught us a lot more, but we don't need to go into that as I'm sure everything that drove us away has changed for the better.

Yes, Bootstrap emerged from my work at ZURB, but more importantly, from the entire web community. Before I redesigned ZURB.com or wrote nearly the entire ZURB Style Guide (at least the CSS and Design Patterns sections), frameworks and style guides were already in high demand and influencing our work at ZURB. You can take a look at the CSS section here: http://d.pr/i/uoGb. I have screenshots of every page of the project from right before I left.

It's important to note that I never worked on Foundation, nor had any idea it was in the works until it was released on 10/14/2011, two months after Bootstrap was released (https://twitter.com/ZURB/status/124984359135608832). In fact, it was Dave Gamache, former ZURB designer and now former Twitter designer, who wrote a majority of Foundation 1.0 after I left ZURB. Go ahead and ask him (@dhg) about that for more details.

However, I did copy and paste code, but never from Foundation. The things Bryan is referring to are "how to" docs, lorem ipsum and filler text, and examples for the address tag, emphasis tags, lists, and blockquotes. Looking at the very first commit to Bootstrap (https://github.com/twitter/bootstrap/tree/eb81782cdbdc68aaeb...), four months before we released v1.0, you can see that content there. I have made no attempt to hide it, nor could I. In the hundreds of following commits, I removed nearly all that code before launching BS1.0, but I missed some (the items listed above). Within days, I removed it and replaced it with my own code, copy, and examples. Edit: for full transparency, you can see Bootstrap 1.0 and the offending content at http://d.pr/i/Rn9r.

I made an honest mistake that any developer can by using code from the work I did at my previous employer, but I also fully rectified it immediately by removing all the offending code and replacing it with my own.

I made a mistake early on by using the work I had done at ZURB as a basis for everything I have done since then. In the theoretical sense, that is never frowned upon, but in the practical, it is, and I'm sorry about that. But I never ripped Foundation, nor ever intend to. If anything, you need to take a fresh look at Foundation 3 and ask yourself who's really taking code from the other's framework. (edit for clarification).

Ever since Bootstrap 2.0 came out, you've ripped nearly every single component we created in our framework and added it to Foundation, including: the basics of our grid system, navbar, responsive navbar, breadcrums, alerts, labels, tooltips, popovers, prepended and appended inputs, breadcrumbs, accordion, progress bars, image styles, and more. All of those were in Bootstrap first, and you've added them without even batting an eye. We've also added things that other frameworks and products added, but when you're calling me out for ripping something I never had access to, you really need to take a step back and look at what you've done as well.

I have no illusions about how I got to where I am: I thank everyone profusely, day in and day out, for making it possible. I made the mistake of using the work I did at ZURB to start a brand new project, and I apologize for doing it that way and corrected the mistake within days. I never stole from Foundation, nor do I ever plan to.

Bootstrap creator here.

tl;dr: <3, Jacob and I quit Twitter, he's going to Obvious, I'm going to GitHub, it's been amazing, nothing but love, Twitter is great, no ill will, Bootstrap is going to keep going, <3.

First, thanks for the love everyone! Jacob and I love seeing people as excited about the future of Bootstrap as us. We're hopeful that this is just the beginning of it. And now, onto answering some of the questions/comments folks have brought up here thus far.

Jacob left over a month ago and my last day is next Friday (10/5). He's going to Obvious, and (announcing it here for the first time) I'm going to GitHub.

The timing has nothing to do with a disagreement about Bootstrap (seriously, none what so ever), and more to do with us both wanting a change in our own lives for what we do day-to-day. Twitter, the company and product, are both amazing and Jacob and I have worked there for 2.5 years. We're stoked for our next things and we both want to keep working on Bootstrap no matter what. We have an obligation to the community and know it could go much further. (Oh, and yes, I screwed up the date on the post. My bad, yo.)

Bootstrap was created by me at Twitter as a means to make better looking internal tools (I wrote about this on A List Apart awhile back: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/building-twitter-bootstra...). It started off as a simple HTML/CSS thing, then Jacob built plugins on top of it, and we open sourced it together. We made it at Twitter, so when we wanted to open source it, we went to Twitter to ensure it was good to go. Thus, it was named Twitter Bootstrap (originally, "Bootstrap, from Twitter" actually). Now, it's back to just "Bootstrap".

We don't really think of it as the next jQuery, Django, or Drupal. But you can't deny there is something to front-end frameworks like Bootstrap, and that's what we're excited about. HTML and CSS are the two easiest and most basic building blocks of websites. Everyone knows and uses them, and that's a big part of why Bootstrap has grown so much, and can continue to grow more.

No, we weren't "given time" to work on Bootstrap, but that's because it was a project I started on my own to help other engineers. Jacob came in to shape it into a proper open source project and then wrote all the JavaScript plugins (Fun fact: before the jQuery plugins, he wrote a MooTools library on top of it called Tit, which is a type of bird). Anyway, we weren't given time because it wasn't a company priority, naturally, and we're okay with that. We worked on it, at the office or at home, whenever we wanted and folks were generally okay with that as well.

The move to making Bootstrap its own project and organization is a joint one, between myself, Jacob, and Twitter's Open Source team (@cra). The transition will take time, but we need to grow Bootstrap beyond the two of us and Twitter, and into something more. There is really sooooo much potential for making better things on the Web, and we're hoping we can keep that up with the help of the community.

Anyway, we're both stoked to keep working on Bootstrap. It's a great project that can be so much better, and that's pretty damned awesome to us. Twitter has been amazing for both of us and will continue to down the road. We wish nothing but the best for everyone we've worked with.

<3

No worries, and we appreciate you being fans :). Just wanted to let you know, and I figured you're attention would be here anyway.

Bootstrap creator here.

* .navbar is for positioning/sizing.

* .navbar-inner is required for the gradient because `overflow: visible;` is not respected by IE when `filter` is present.

* .container is for centering the content within the navbar

No idea what .navbar-content is—that's not part of the Bootstrap navbar component. We also use a `ul.nav`, not `div.nav`.

So, close to the core, but not 100%.

Thank you for calling this out. We'll fix it up as best as we can with the next release. Knew it going into this release it wasn't enough, so hopefully we can iterate on it to get the right behavior.

Yup, that was what we wanted to avoid for this round of updates. Cmd+F is your best friend in docs, no matter the format. Either way, we'll strive to improve as much as we can with future updates.

Come on, meow, I thought we were past this :).

For that release we had an upgrade guide. It wasn't the most complete, but I think it helped a lot. For this one, as is the case for every other release, just browse the tags and download the docs. Just as it's not terribly difficult for us to host them, it's not asking much for you to download a ZIP file that will always be available :).

Yes! Absolutely. We wanted to add some javascript love to the dropdowns, but ultimately didn't have the time to get it in there for launch. The beautiful part of it is we can always improve :). Much love for the diagram as well—I'll see if I can get Jacob to cook this up.

Fair criticism, but the subnav we had before, like the navbar, just doesn't scale. Let's less obtrusive, but hinders us in a big way. It's tough doing nav that works for everyone everywhere, but hopefully this pans out for us and folks using Bootstrap.

Edit: Also, the side nav came first, then the affix plugin. Originally I was proposing a fixed, independently-scrolling left sidebar, which we may still get to, but it felt decidedly un-Bootstrap-like for the time being.

I actually pulled it at the last minute, but I was considering removing it for 2.1. Perhaps in 2.2 when we continue to evolve the docs :).

The fixed bottom navbar isn't documented yet, but we do have examples of the "dropup" menus in the dropdown buttons section here: http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/components.html#buttonDr...