llmslave2

It's true that some people will just continually move the goalposts because they are invested in their beliefs. But that doesn't mean that the skepticism around certain claims aren't relevant.

Nobody serious is disputing that LLM's can generate working code. They dispute claims like "Agentic workflows will replace software developers in the short to medium term", or "Agentic workflows lead to 2-100x improvements in productivity across the board". This is what people are looking for in terms of evidence and there just isn't any.

Thus far, we do have evidence that AI (at least in OSS) produces a 19% decrease in productivity [0]. We also have evidence that it harms our cognitive abilities [1]. Anecdotally, I have found myself lazily reaching for LLM assistance when encountering a difficult problem instead of thinking deeply about the problem. Anecdotally I also struggle to be more productive using AI-centric agents workflows in areas of expertise.

We want evidence that "vibe engineering" is actually more productive across the entire lifespan of a software project. We want evidence that it produces better outcomes. Nobody has yet shown that. It's just people claiming that because they vibe coded some trivial project, all of software development can benefit from this approach. Recently a principle engineer at Google claimed that Claude Code wrote their team's entire year's worth of work in a single afternoon. They later walked that claim back, but most do not.

I'm more than happy to be convinced but it's becoming extremely tiring to hear the same claims being parroted without evidence and then you get called a luddite when you question it. It's also tiring when you push them on it and they blame it on the model you use, and then the agent, and then the way you handle context, and then the prompts, and then "skill issue". Meanwhile all they have to show is some slop that could be hand coded in a couple hours by someone familiar with the domain. I use AI, I was pretty bullish on it for the last two years, and the combination of it simply not living up to expectations + the constant barrage of what feels like a stealth marketing campaign parroting the same thing over and over (the new model is way better, unlike the other times we said that) + the amount of absolute slop code that seems to continue to increase + companies like Microsoft producing worse and worse software as they shoehorn AI into every single product (Office was renamed to Copilot 365). I've become very sensitive to it, much in the same way I was very sensitive to the claims being made by certain VC backed webdev companies regarding their product + framework in the last few years.

I'm not even going to bring up the economic, social, and environmental issues because I don't think they're relevant, but they do contribute to my annoyance with this stuff.

[0] https://metr.org/blog/2025-07-10-early-2025-ai-experienced-o... [1] https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2025/11/is-ai-dulling...

Anything where you have literal "instances" of something with common state/behaviour is prime for inheritance, but that's different from trying to model a domain as a set of hierarchal objects.

But I do like classes - you can use them without inheritance, and the other stuff that comes with them (encapsulation, polymorphism, etc) fits my mental model. [0] Classes are just syntactic sugar over closures at the end of the day.

But inheritance is best when it's limited and shallow.

0:

  The venerable master Qc Na was walking with his student, Anton. Hoping
  to prompt the master into a discussion, Anton said "Master, I have
  heard that objects are a very good thing - is this true?" Qc Na looked
  pityingly at his student and replied, "Foolish pupil - objects are
  merely a poor man's closures."

  Chastised, Anton took his leave from his master and returned to his
  cell, intent on studying closures. He carefully read the entire
  "Lambda: The Ultimate..." series of papers and its cousins, and
  implemented a small Scheme interpreter with a closure-based object
  system. He learned much, and looked forward to informing his master of
  his progress.

  On his next walk with Qc Na, Anton attempted to impress his master by
  saying "Master, I have diligently studied the matter, and now
  understand that objects are truly a poor man's closures." Qc Na
  responded by hitting Anton with his stick, saying "When will you
  learn? Closures are a poor man's object." At that moment, Anton became
  enlightened.

Inheritance is great, just depends how you use it.

I've never once reached for it for building servers.

For games? All the time.

That's because Opus has been out for almost 5 months now lol. Its the same model, so I think people have been vibe coding with a heavy dose of wine this holiday and are now convinced its the future.

Maybe they are struggling to convince others because they are unable to produce evidence that is able to convince people?

My experience scrolling X and HN is a bunch of people going "omg opus omg Claude Code I'm 10x more productive" and that's it. Just hand wavy anecdotes based on their own perceived productivity. I'm open to being convinced but just saying stuff is not convincing. It's the opposite, it feels like people have been put under a spell.

I'm following The Primeagen, he's doing a series where he is trying these tools on stream and following peoples advice on how to use them the best. He's actually quite a good programmer so I'm eager to see how it goes. So far he isn't impressed and thus neither am I. If he cracks it and unlocks significant productivity then I will be convinced.

Couple things stand out to me:

1) everyone on the team uses Claude code differently.

2) Claude Code has been around for almost a year and is being built by an entire team, yet doesn't seem to have benefited from this approach. The program is becoming buggier and less reliable over time, and development speed seems indistinguishable from anything else.

3) Everything this person says should be taken with a massive grain of salt considering their various conflicts of interest.

Marketing

Idk, I still see Micro$oft used a lot. Maybe not on HN but HN in general being filled with tech employees is often more sympathetic to big tech companies.

MS is betting hard on AI which has earned them this current moniker. If they keep doubling down on this bet I can see it sticking.

I find it interesting that they renamed Office to Copilot, and HN has been pretty quiet about that. It's been clowned pretty hard on other sites.

https://www.office.com/

Considering that when the problems started, many people online were having a similar issue I think it's unlikely it was a hardware failure.

Text-based social media is cancer, the best example being X but also its derivatives, Facebook, Reddit etc. They are too susceptible to astroturfing, manipulation, political slop and outrage, bullying etc.

I get a lot of value out of Instagram despite its ongoing enslopification. It lets me keep up with old friends, share memes with my friends, and the reel algorithm never fails to put me in a good mood.

I'm 50/50 on HN, because even though it's a text-based platform it's not so bad compared to X for example.

I do think people will be drastically reevaluating their internet usage over the next decade tho, especially as the dead internet theory becomes more than just a theory and people return to the real world.

I think it's a neat idea from a technical perspective and congrats on shipping.

Only thing, work on your marketing copy. It's very clearly LLM generated and feels icky.

Tech companies will be seen the same way as cigarette companies, and their apologists seen like the doctors and scientists who were paid to lie.

> I feel like I’m working with a peer, not a junior I’m having to direct.

I think this says a lot.

I see Anthropics marketing campaign is out in full force today ahead of their IPO.

If the game asks you when you first open it, does it matter if the question is to "opt out" or "opt in"?

Yes

Sounds like it's an accurate analogy after all haha

Well that's what he claims. Idk if its true or if this person even exists.

> I would instead invest some good time and money in buying and learning to play a modern replica of a greek Kithara.

How would you go about doing that?

Yeah it's incredibly bad, and people are literally learning to not trust a single thing AI touches because of hallucinations like this.

Nice, an obviously AI generated post from someone who works from Meta and is "mostly interested in AI advancements from a software engineering perspective. I’m currently working on ways to make it better and ultimately eliminate my livelihood."

If this is satire it's very well done.

Before

I was gonna comment that Go is a fantastic language for this since it's trivial to package everything up into a single binary that contains everything necessary and has everything you need in its stdlib as well. And low and behold...

> human employees using AI are doing way more than they could before, both in depth and scale

Funny how that doesn't show up in any productivity or economic metrics...

Once again, more evidence mounts that AI is massively overhyped and limited in usefulness, and once again we will see people making grandiose claims (without evidence of course) and predictions that will inevitably fall flat in the future. We are, of course, perpetually just 3-6 months away from when everything changes.

I think Carmack is right, LLM's are not the route to AGI.

> One of my employees is drunk, and someon dies. Now I am responsible.

In what way?

Yeah I think this is a well known problem. Humans tend to get a lot of stuff right on the first try, and then it's subsequently thrown away in the name of "progress".

I think the question of if X should do more to prevent this kind of abuse (I think they should) is separate from Grok or LLM's though. I get that since xAI and X are owned by the same person there is some complications here, but most of the arguments I'm reading have to do with the LLM specifically, not just lax moderation policies.

I think we all know it's illegal to sell illegal services.

> I'm literally sitting with a lit cigarette in my hand right now

How does it feel to be living my dream rn...