jimiasty

Jakub here, founder of Estimote.

@tashoecraft: Google did here a really elegant design. URLs from beacons are not rendered in the browser directly (it's not the device that resolves URL or fetches description). There is a Google service based on Google Search doing that and then data are rendered in the browser.

We expect this is how Google is actually planning to prevent spam. Before they present anything in the browser for the user, they might filter that and/or rank, same way they do it with links in the search.

Beacons are much more precise than GPS. You can setup more than 1.5m accuracy and they can have built-in sensors (e.g. motion sensor). So the signal is broadcasted (URL opened) when you touch something for example.

As you know beacons use Bluetooth Low Energy - it is different Bluetooth and really low-powered. Beacon can last many years on a single coin battery. It's also way more power efficient for the phone to scan for beacons that GPS regions. Beacons have almost no impact on phone's battery.

In addition it is important to remember that 80% of time people spend indoor when GPS doesn't work, so that technology might be useful for indoor applications (e.g. museums, airports, retail, etc).

This is Jakub, founder of Estimote here.

@RexRollman: it seems Google is experimenting with that at the moment and the feature is opt-in only, so no worry.

When you download the new Chrome for iOS you "have to" include Chrome into "Today widgets" section and also Enable "Physical Web Scanning" that will show you the list nearby URLs broadcasted by beacons.

As you can see there is still a lot of efforts there and you need to turn on initially.

Estimote founder here. Few days ago Google released their new, open beacon format - eddystone and today just updated Chrome for iOS that can scan for beacons broadcasting Eddystone URLs. You can read more on our blog how to start broadcasting URL using beacons and how to test it on Chrome for iOS.

Estimote founder here.

Few days ago Google released their new, open beacon format - eddystone and today just updated Chrome for iOS that can scan for beacons broadcasting Eddystone URLs.

You can read more on our blog how to start broadcasting URL using beacons and how to test it on Chrome for iOS.

Amazon did a great job with that technique and we were inspired a lot by that. Of course companies/startups do less "press-releases" these days, so we adopted it to blogging.

The content of published articles does help not only with team focus, but also is a natural "deliverable" definition for UI-less products such as SDK. Blog post simply cannot be published unless code is in the Github repo, tutorials and sample apps are there as well as illustrations and narration communicating new features.

Hi HN,

this is Jakub, co-founder of Estimote (YC S13).

As a dev-oriented company our SDK team used to ship tons of new code into our Github repos. We realized that our SDK is much harder to productize and define an explicit "deliverable".

Thus past few months we have applied "Blog post driven development" where the aim of the sprint was to build, test, document and communicate SDK changes in a form of a blog post.

This technique is working for us really well, so John who is driving that team as a Project Leader decided to share the details with the HN community. We hope you will enjoy it and feel free to comment.

--- Here is also a snapshot of our recent blog posts as as a proof shipping code with posts is working really well:

- 5/15 - OAuth support for easier integration of Estimote Cloud into your services - 5/06 - Hugely improved Indoor Location SDK (4-meter accuracy) - 5/04 - Updated Android SDK - 4/23 - Improved beacon real-world analytics (new SDK + API) - 4/21 - Estimote Cloud updates (tag beacons with metadata + GPS location) - 4/15 - Conditional beacon broadcasting (for power saving & easier prototyping) - 3/24 - Fleet Management API - 3/18 - New SDK and firmware - 3/13 - C# and JavaScript support - 3/04 - Support for Apple Watch - 2/24 - Infrastructure Sharing (open beacons to 3rd party apps/brands) - 2/13 - Trigger Engine

It very much depends on the number of people and obstacles (glass, metal).

The best approach would be to put more beacons in that "interfering" areas.

If beacons are installed high enough, so there is always a line-of-sight between beacon and phone it should work fine in the crowded space.

Not yet, but you can setup beacons at home as well and check the accuracy - just tried that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtBERi7Lf3c

Once you calibrate your room you can make it a public room and other could build apps on top of it.

We use combination of many different techniques incorporated into our SDK, so there is no one specific formula - think more about it as a "driver" for the physical-location and communication device (e.g. iPhone).

The major role is played by beacons. Since we manufacture them we have a full control of the entire physics behind the signal propagation. You can read more here about it: http://blog.estimote.com/post/106913675010/how-do-beacons-wo...

Technically there is no limitation in the size of the space; it can be an airport or shopping mall - you just need to use more beacons if you want better results in a huge space.

See this GIF: http://i58.tinypic.com/33nyrgo.gif It's a 30m x 15m space (half of your space) and we used 12 beacons. You can use less if you want "corner / room" level accuracy.

Because beacons broadcast signals all around any number of devices can access their signals and there is no limit in number of people with mobile app that uses our SDK. If you put beacons high enough the signal absorption should be minimal, but we haven't tested with high density crowd yet.

Thanks! Glad you experimented with beacons and Hue. There is already several apps that combine beacons with Hue: https://vimeo.com/91335074

When it comes to Android we have just released an update to our main Android SDK and app (you can read more here: http://blog.estimote.com/post/118119809840/announcing-an-upd...)

We plan to catch up with other SDKs for Android as well.

Hi Travis,

Jakub again here. This is great; thanks for your comments. We try to have a very pragmatic approach and believe that room beaconifying procedure should be extremely simple, so mobile developers can concentrate on domain specific challenges regarding their use-cases.

Thus, ref (a) it is as simple deploying few beacons in the room (see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtBERi7Lf3c) The floor plan and location of beacons is calculated automatically and once you save the room in the cloud you or other people can access calibration and build location-aware apps. There is also no specific training requirement.

The advantage of using BLE beacons over WiFi or ZigBee is the fact they are natively integrated with mobile operating system s (e.g. via iBeacon protocol for Apple), so a smartphone can perform calculations in the background without any user intervention - frictionless applications are possible.

Hi HN,

this is Jakub, Co-Founder of Estimote.

We have just uploaded into GitHub (https://github.com/Estimote/iOS-Indoor-SDK) another release of our Indoor Location SDK.

We have managed to achieve 4m accuracy for large spaces using just several beacons.

In addition it is possible to locate several people same time with a real-time access to their X,Y position via cloud-based API.

We believe this might be your next canvas for awesome future real-world apps. Feel free to test it and share feedback/ask questions.

This was a historical reason. When we started shipping last year we decided for 3 beacons since it was more fun with three than one prototyping beacon apps.

Since most of the typical rooms have 4+ walls we require at least four bacons to work with indoor.

Adding more beacons does improve accuracy.

This Jakub from Estimote again. Few months ago we have released "Power management" for beacons you can read more here: http://blog.estimote.com/post/91749152580/estimote-rolls-out...

Thanks to these features our beacons can save energy when not used, so if you enable "smart mode" they should last more than 2-3 years.

You are right that people and their bodies might absorb Bluetooth radiowaves, but our solution does combine several different techniques to minimize that effect.

This is the first version of our SDK and we encourage developers in our community to test different setup with more beacons or beacons located a bit higher, so there is always a line-of-sight between phone and beacons.

Hi there, this is Jakub, Co-Founder of Estimote (YC S13). Our Indoor Location SDK was designed specifically for Estimote Beacons (the bigger one with bigger battery, not the stickers). Estimote Beacons with their adhesive layer were designed to be sticked to walls vertically. Thanks to their position and antenna orientation we are able to "estimate" position of the user inside the building. Indoor location is also power-consuming for beacons while they broadcast a bit more often, so we can do better math while analyzing data. Stickers were designed for movable objects with much shorter range and a bit longer advertising intervals.

@Robert: there is 256K flash at the moment and there is two-way communication between phone and the beacon.

At the moment it is possible to connect to the beacon as an admin and change its UUID, major, minor, broadcasted power/range, give a name, access temperature, motion-sensor.

Technically it is also possible to store some information within the beacon, but just haven't enabled that for developers yet - how would you use it?

In theory beacons is there to deliver a context, e.g. context of your fridge in the kitchen, so you phone in the background can respond and process/store data.

You can also simulate Estimote Beacons just by downloading the app from App Store: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/estimote/id686915066?mt=8

Tap "beacons" and hit "turn this device into an iBeacon". Works for any BLE-enabled iDevice which is iPhone4S+

We curate a list of applications and case studies of beacon deployments: https://community.estimote.com/hc/en-us/sections/200364446-V...

There is fun stuff from quadrocopter 3d positioning till contact-less payments.

Based on our experience at Estimote entering the region is triggering iOS action much faster than leaving the region and this is how it works for iOS at the moment (probably phone battery optimization).

Entering region is super responsive (aprox. few seconds). Exit the region might take up to a minute+.

If you are building smart alarm-clock it is much better to detect if you entered the bathroom or kitchen than detecting if you left bedroom.

Hi, this is Jakub, co-founder & ceo of Estimote. Yes, you are right - there are additional sensors into each Estimote Beacon like temperature & accelerometer. You can read more about them here: http://blog.estimote.com/post/87918401035/firmware-update-ac...

The challenge with cheap, Chinese beacons is that beacon deployments in general are site-specific at the moment. They require configuration, enabling security, calibration, etc.

We sell currently Dev Kits that consist of 3 beacons as well as free iOS & Android SDK, responsive support, 20K+ developers community portal, cloud-based fleet management tool and more.

Each beacon is in fact tiny computer with ARM processor, flash memory and sensors. Thanks to our iOS app you can configure range of the beacon, optimize battery life and security. We update our firmware on monthly-basis so even if you bought beacons 6 months ago you can download the latest version over-the-air and enable sensors and new tech and there is more to come soon.

We all agree that beacons will be everywhere in the future and deployed at scale. The fact is that beacons cost will be still tiny part of the budget dedicated to build the context-aware app. We have partnered with many companies like Knoll to build such apps (http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/17/estimote-knoll-partner-to-b...) and believe the value is in the underlying software delivered together with high quality hardware.

That's a great vision and we at Estimote are really into it. But be believe there will always be goods you need to touch and try before you buy (expensive cameras, furnitures, even fashion).

Retail stores with sensors could deliver you both great showrooming experience and mobile commerce, something people already do anyway trying in Best Buy and buying from Amazon :P

StickNFind or Tile are designed to be sticked to moving objects in order to estimate their location from owner phone.

Estimote is designed to be sticked to fixed location. Think about it as a lighthouse that is broadcasting its presence and location, so smartphones and other smart devices could estimate their relative location and get the context.

Hey, this is Jakub from Estimote.

We have been working on wireless Bluetooth Smart beacons long before Apple made it part of their Core Location API and called iBeacon.

If you would like to learn more about Apple iBeacon you could check it here: https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/CoreLo...

Our API and BLE beacons in general are explained here: http://www.estimote.com/api

Hi, this is Jakub, Co-founder of Estimote (YC S13).

That's correct and any iOS device (iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch) could be turned into a beacon.

We have even developed a Virtual Beacon app you could already download from the App Store and simulate beacon and proximity: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/estimote-virtual-beacon/id68...

If one wants to pickup the Virtual Beacon's signals programmatically then our API website could be helpful where we have included source code of few apps http://www.estimote.com/api

This is Jakub, co-founder of Estimote (YC S13).

I will add to this article that few weeks ago we have released iOS app called "Estimote Virtual Beacon" people can use to experience the micro-location and proximity iBeacon-style by turning one iOS device into a virtual beacon and use the other to test it.

Enjoy! https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/estimote-virtual-beacon/id68...

I will be more than happy to answer any questions. Will be here for some time.

Thanks guys for the discussion, this is Jakub, the co-founder.

When it comes to the signal/noise problem it is definately a challenge and we believe that neither App Stores nor Estimote as beacons' infrastructure will allow apps that annoy consumers because it will kill the technology and users will turn off the Bluetooth.

Our vision of future interactions is more about context. We believe the cocept of apps you have to download and place as an icon on your screen and then find when you need is wrong.

It should work the way that you walk-in to the your home approache fridge with smartphone or Google Glass and wanted order for eggs, you take out your phone and there is a fridge context.

You walk-in to the restaurant and there is a context of menu and ordering food. You ate and there is a context of payin the bill, you walk-out and in the exit there is a conxtext of rating the restaurant.

So, in our vision future apps will be a set of conditions and actions you write for the venue the same way you do it now for the screen and keyboard.

From technology point of view if some popular app like Foursquare integreta with our beacons it could trigger other apps even if they not have our code yet, but there is a context for that.

Daniel,

I think you are confusing old Bluetooth we used for headsets or car audio and the new Bluetooth 4.0 Low Energy protocol.

It is new, completely redesigned protocol that is supported by Apple devices from iPhone 4S and is more similar to Zigbee than Bluetooth.

Users still need to turn it on, but have measured in retail stores that most of "normal" people (not geeks) do not turn it off. Please also note the Bluetooth Low Energy is used and promoted by Apple in features like AirDrop or to communicate with Apple TV.

Bluetooth Low Energy different than old Bluetooth does not require pairing and connecting.

You just walk-in to the store, e.g. IKEA and approach sofa you like the most and you see the picture of the sofa on your screen.

Blueooth SIG (organization behind Bluetooth standard) projects strong growth in the number of devices that support BLE: http://blog.bluetooth.com/os-season-what-it-means-to-you/