istvan__

I did not write that I cant prove it but I hope somebody has more context. The things that I state are proven see link below.

http://time.com/3904431/ellen-pao-appeal-sexism-case/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Fletcher

Pretty sad that the free speech is disappearing from the internet with the speed of light and it gets replaced with propaganda. Victoria was a well known character of the reddit community and she did a lot for them. Sad to see her gone.

Yep, many organizations banned it already and few guys are learning it the hard way that they should have. Google requires special approvals to even use AGPL in their network. It is kind of funny that these guys who want AGPL showed down your throat happily use non-AGPL code.

Yes, this is exactly right. If you want to write free software just use a nice license like MIT, BSD, Apache, Eclipse etc. Why would you want to force your views on people?

Yep, these licenses are banned in Amazon for example. I am also refusing to use AGPL projects because I think free supposed to be free in the BSDL sense and not some weird awkward way that AGPL is trying to force on people.

I think what matters is: outside the organization where the certain language was invented what is the the most users use it for.

Aka: outside Google what is Go used for? Mostly web related project and low level IO, databases, data stores, etc.; based on the popular Go projects on Github, if somebody has time it would be good to see some stats on this

outside Mozilla what is Rust used for? This is a more tricky question because the most programmers I know of do not consider a language for anything before 1.0. Rust 1.0 just got released recently so they have years to go to have relevant stats about the usage patterns.

I don't think it is a big surprise. C++ programmers like features that Go does not have. Ruby/Python guys like out of the box performance that Ruby/Python does not have. :)

A good summary of Go here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9267211

As a systems language Go is ok, as a business domain language Go is subpar based on the current state of the language. CSP makes Go great for Ruby/Python guys because these features (channels, go routines) solves lots of problems those languages do not have a great solution to.

Same here, I never understood Java interfaces, abstract classes, and a ton of other "features" but picking up Clojure was a breeze. I don't understand why complicating thing that supposed to be simple helps you by any mean. On the top of that, I have seen several cases when Java programmers tipped over in their own code because of the complexity that they thought they understand, except there was a particular case when it was doing something else then expected.

Reasoning about Clojure (LISP) code is always easy because if you follow best practices you have small functions with very little context to understand.

On the top of these, I see the ratio of LOC 50:1 (worst case even higher) for Java : Clojure code that does the same thing. Usually people get triggered and say why does it matter, but in reality less code is better for everybody. Easier to understand, less chance of errors, etc. Correctness was long time lost for majority of Java developers, just put out a survey and you can see it for yourself.

It is also pretty common practice not to handle exceptions well and just let a DNS not found error explode as an IOexception and good luck tracking down what caused it (literary happened to me).

I understand that the average Java dev does not see any value in LISP (Clojure) but it silly to expect that the average of any group is going to lead the scientific advancement of any field including computer science.

One tendency that you can see if you are walking around with open eyes that the people who spent significant time in developing procedural code in an imperative language understand the importance of functional language features and the power of LISP. One can pretend it does not matter see you in 5-10 years and see how much this changes.

https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/577877590070919168

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X69_42Mj-g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P76Vbsk_3J0

Sir, this comment just made my day. I am going to screen shot it and place it in our office when anybody asks why I use mostly Clojure for my work.

Oh boy, if I could publish all of the things I went through. I was hoping too, until I have been in several companies, I have experienced with several developers and that was the time when I started to think, this is not an isolated problem but rather the average.

I do not have this problem, because I understand this very well. I said, an average Java dev has this problem, that is based on my experience working with Java devs in San Francisco for few years.

Could not agree more. I hope somebody write a sane toolchain for open source once.

No, I do not mean like a war file. I am talking about an average Java developer who does not understand how classpath works, how environment works and what are the assumption that is built in to the code and blames everything on other people . For a long time they could get away with this, post-Docker world they cannot.

One business use case is to stop threads between the Ops and the Dev team about missing JAR files on a production system.

If Docker was fixing this only, I would still use it. There is nothing better than a single binary deployment that is byte to byte the same as it was running on a dev laptop and a QA env.

I would do something like this on my macbook:

git clone blah && cd blah && brew install leiningen && lein figwheel

I don't know what is you operating system and other details.

You need leiningen, that is the make of Clojure, the repository cloned and you are good.

I think it is one of the best stacks out there for web.

Check out this:

https://github.com/bhauman/flappy-bird-demo

It uses figwheel for the dynamic changes of state when you change to code, and it renders it without reload ala Bret Victor style. The first time I saw it I was amazed. It speeds up prototyping so much.

The out of the box performance is decent as well, Ring and Hiccup is pretty lean but you can go for more heavy frameworks (I don't have any experience with those).

I personally use Reagent + Ring, found it easy to use and get productive in a day.

If you haven't used LISP or any homoiconic language before it might look little weird at first but I found it easy to explain to people.

About the toy part, what is your definition of toy?

Also I would ask them to create it as a pull request on Github push it to a branch in a private repo. Another 10% of candidates gone. (There might be overlap with the guys who don't have Github presence and anything online but you get my point.)

Welcome to California! :) You know you are absolutely right. Some companies care only about what is hip and nothing else.

"I saw the best minds of my generation... writing spam filters." — Neal Stephenson, Solve For X

Any down voter care to explain why are you down voting facts?

Very true! Thanks for pointing this out too.

There is nothing ironic here, humans add more CO2 sources and kill the most CO2 sinks (forests) these activities would put any system off balance. People like to talk about how CO2 production is bad but they forget to mention that killing rainforest is equally bad.

If you are talking about the CO2 portion of it and focusing on the artificial sources than here is the chart you are looking for:

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/sources.html

Obviously you are missing out on natural sources for CO2, and the rest of the gases as well:

Water vapor (H2O)

Carbon dioxide (CO2)

Methane (CH4)

Nitrous oxide (N2O)

Ozone (O3)

Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs)

Which one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas#Greenhouse_gase...

Well correlation is not causation.

is it y=f(x) or y=x(f)? aka is is warmer because of the higher greenhouse gases or is there more greenhouse gases because of the warmer climate (that could have been caused by things like leaving an ice age and approaching a warm period in Earth's life)

Just to clarify, i support green technology and I think this is definitely the way to go but I don't like the unjustified crusade using proofs that can be ripped apart in minutes.

No surprise there, Rich's code is pretty solid. I really like this sort of co-operation between languages.

Out of curiosity: QuickCheck is a property based test library? I know of test.check in Clojure and they mention QuickCheck as the inspiration, so I guess they re similar in this regard.

Yeah similar story is happening to me. The USCIS denying my VISA transfer requests for no reason. They fail to provide anything other than utter bullshit.

Everything can be done, you can invest a lot of time to make your code run better on JVM and tune the GC settings etc. If you make the same investment into the Erlang ecosystem (like for example WhatsApp guys did) I think you could match the JVM performance in terms of handling number of connections and staying responsive. If your code does numeric calculation most of the time you are probably having a better time on the JVM though.

http://www.erlang-factory.com/upload/presentations/558/efsf2...

Heh it was coming through at the first sight, you know it very well.

" I know that and I'm a big fan of programming in it." Me too btw. :)

I see your point, yes that is absolutely true. I think one reason why Erlang is great because they realized that exposing the POSIX threading APIs to software developers is harmful. :) Why would you ever want to know how many cores you are running on? If you know it you have to keep track of it and adjust it on different systems and bunch of other issues. On the top of that POSIX threads are so expensive that it totally did not make any sense to implement a system that allows the developer to create a thread. I think Joe & team made an excellent decision there. On the other side, you can't really access these low level primitives so this is I guess what you are talking about. For the low level stuff you need a systems language (C,Go whatever).

Oh, yeah, JVM based actors are kind of interesting. I am not sure how can they meet any latency SLA. The GC is skewing the response time potentially, right? In Erlang/OTP it does not happen because of the GC implementation as you know.

"However, they will not replace Go for a rather simple reason. Erlang is an application runtime first and a language second. It's not meant to play with the native OS all that well, instead relying on its own scheduling, semantics, process constructs and the OTP framework. It exports a minimum set of OS libs for things like file system interaction, but you wouldn't write a Unix subsystem daemon in it. Though, you certainly can - if you want to hack with NIFs, port drivers and C nodes. But then you put the global VM state at risk if some native caller blows up."

I have to disagree here. One of the best applications of modern times ever written in Erlang is Riak. It has lots os system services, they do IO a lot (it is a key-value store after all) and it works beautifully. It is using LevelDB under the hood for storing the data on disk and it is written in C++. Erlang makes it possible to have a distributed service using Erlang for the distributed parts and C++ for the disk IO combining the best of both worlds.

You are right about the potential NIF problems, but one shortcoming that can be possible worked around does not invalidate the rest of the system that is cutting edge.

How can you be sure that Erlang is great? Just look into projects like Akka and many more Scala project, they pick up features from Erlang because it simply works, easy to understand and reason about.

The notion of Erlang replacing Go is funny anyways because Erlang existed for much longer time than GO and even if you are looking in the web stack in Erlang it is pretty cool. Webmachine is one of the most stable tools out there, providing absolutely amazing latency and a state machine to handle HTTP requests.

Go as a language is new and certain way immature (like debugging and generics for example). It is an ok environment to develop in, but I would use Erlang/Elixir much more willingly for HTTP services (saying this after tried to use Go for a while but I just gave up, it was too much hassle for not too much gain).