6,175 karma · joined November 21, 2015
Why do they get to use "open source" while effectively violating the freedoms but somebody using the Elastic License, or the Sustainable Use License, or the SSPL, or the BSL, or the FSL, etc. isn't allowed to? They're all doing the same thing, only the latter licenses are saying the quiet part out loud.
Anyways, I agree we do seem to be talking past each other at this point. gl
They (the author aka the startup) wouldn't have chosen the AGPL if not for enterprises/bigtech/competition being scared of it.
They didn't choose AGPL to increase freedom 0 (AGPL's purpose), they chose it to decrease it.
Thus, veiled intentions.
I wouldn't be so quick to judge. I love open source. But I also think words and intent matters.
I don't really 'win' by attacking customers/users that use the AGPL.
The example comes straight from the mouth of a COSS founder.
In any case, you can say that in a clearer way.
It's lying. It's an open source project and a business model built on deceit. I guess I care about clear rules, clear intentions, and I care about integrity above all. The AGPL is ambiguity; unclear rules, veiled intentions. And these same people will relicense without a thought, too. I think we should care about these things, otherwise we repeat history over and over again.
If the OSI came out and made a statement on the ambiguities in the AGPL, and cleared the FUD in such a way that all companies agreed and could reference it, I'd wager that the AGPL would over time become much, much less popular for commercial open source. But I'd wager that they won't do that, because they win when COSS wins.
But if they did, we'd likely even see a move towards non-OSS licenses, ones that are clear as to their intent and rules -- rather than relying on ambiguity -- because there would no longer be an OSI-approved license that businesses could use to have their cake and eat it too.
Very few COSS business/startup/w/e right now are choosing AGPL for altruistic reasons. This thread and every other COSS licensing thread here are evidence of that.
Few of them care about software freedoms, or know why they chose the AGPL. They have a playbook that says AGPL lets them take advantage of the open source distribution flywheel, while largely protecting them from the risks associated with commercial open source, i.e. competition. They choose AGPL for this, not because it's the best license for users.
I honestly don't get how people don't see the deception under the AGPL right now.
No legal department will ever allow it due to the FUD. That's the whole fucking point.
This is a grievance against the spirit of open source.
It also aligns quite well with Bear's manifesto [3]. Even if Bear PTY LTD ceases to exist, Bear won't. This can be codified under DOSP.
Disclaimer: I'm involved with fair source and helped write the FCL.
[0]: https://fair.io
[1]: https://opensource.org/dosp
[2]: https://fcl.dev
Marketing is many things, as the post mentions. At it's best, it's a simple transfer of enthusiasm.
e.g. enthusiasm is what the open source distribution model is built on.