edw519

No.

800 billion lines of COBOL = 1 million lines of BASIC

A gross exaggeration, of course, but after 7 years of COBOL, I discovered BASIC and instantly became 10X of my former self.

I would never go back. I get enough overhead from my bosses. I don't need it from the tech too.

I mostly write applications for large enterprises and SMBs. Stuff most people think is boring but is really cool and runs the world: order processing, supply chain, operations, ecommerce, etc. I try to stick to relatively simple and effective technologies, but that's becoming harder and increasingly complex.

What had worked best for me (in descending importance):

  1. LOVE building. If you're not getting satisfaction at work, build something for yourself at night. It's my rush.
  2. Become excellent at what you do. Think Steve Martin, "Be so good they can't ignore you."
  3. Volume. Build. Build. Build. I still think this is the best way to learn and get good.
  4. Keep learning. The best way: building something, then learning what you need to build it, not the other way around (class, book -> then build).
  5. Understand the people side and the tech side are very different. Embrace both, but differently.
  6. Build something that builds something. The nested learning is magnitudes more effective.
  7. At some point do a startup. Even if it fails, you will be much better.
  8. If it stops being fun, do something else. (I've always stayed a programmer, but if I couldn't keep it fun, I would have become a bartender, or a writer, or something).

The irony is this

https://agilemanifesto.org/display/index.html

All these programmers agreeing to IMO the worst culprit to programmer burnout. I still struggle understanding who these people are and why they support this cult. Every excellent programmer I've ever worked with just laughs at this.

I've even commented here on HN many times that I've never been burnt out coding and never will be. I'd be the last one out of here to turn off the lights when everyone else was burnt out.

But now I am most certainly burnt out, not from building software, but from being incarcerated in dysfunctional I.T. hell.

For OP and the posers who think they understand the mindset of serious software developers, here's what really burns us out:

  - the same stupid meeting every morning where nothing is raised or closed and no non-programmer has a clue
  - taking direction from the same clueless bosses who have never accomplished anything but treat us like their children
  - the new technology or philosophy du jour that does everything but address the root of any problem
  - management that absolutely cannot grok fundamentals like cause/effect, critical path, detail/issue, urgent/important, diminishing returns, etc.
  - continuous leadership bombardment of idiocy and stuff we know can't work
  - management's complete failure to solicit or accept feedback from those of us who actually know
  - nothing written down and no one remembering anything
  - confusion by almost everyone about the difference between activity and achievement
  - no written business requirements, technical specs, or test plans, but instead, some new untested methodology
  - leaders who don't understand the difference between steak and sizzle
  - continuous business failures because of poor leadership, not technology (and they keep doing it!)
  - I could go on and on, but I wouldn't get anything done today and be just like my boss.

I'll suffer all day today and then to get rid of the corporate stink, build something cool for myself later tonight. That's not personal burn out, it's industry burn down.

I made one of these years ago in alphabetical order (yea I know stupid). Yours is way better. I can make great use of it.

I use these colors 95% of the time. I call them my "FU colors" (except I user the NSFW pronunciation). Every time someone sees my work, they say either, "How retro," or "You should really hire a designer."

For functionality, they cover almost everything. For "higher purposes" they suck, but I never cared.

Thank you. An evening well spent!

When I'm building something for myself, I'm almost always at Level 2. At Level 1, I never finish anything. At Levels 3 and above, I never seem to find the time to dig deep enough to build it good enough.

I honestly believe that the greatest stuff can get built at Level 2, which I've always thought of as the "Baby Bear Level", not too hot, not too cold, just right.

I don't think I've ever allowed myself to get above Level 4. My father and all my uncles seemed to be around Level 6 or Level 7 their whole lives at work to make a couple more bucks. They all worked themselves to death. I vowed I would never do that. Sure, I could have done more and earned more, but I kept my promise to myself.

I'm taking a little break for this HN visit, but the results of what I was working on before look good and I'm excited to move on. No immediate deadline. Loose schedule. Going to have a ball getting 5 or 6 things done today. For me, this is the only way to work.

  - Robert Robert what did you do yesterday End Robert
  - Robert I met with Robert in accounting to finish Jira 12392 story on the Robertson patches End Robert
  - Robert Then I took a break to have coffee and watch a Julia Roberts short with Robert in System Admin End Robert
  - Robert Robert what are you going to do today End Robert
  - Robert It depends if Robert Roberts has internet access End Robert
  - Robert If he doesn't, that'll be the end of Robert Roberts End Robert
  - Robert No impediments for either Robert in the Robert epic End Robert
  - Robert Robert's on Help Desk, Jean Robert's in Code Review, and Sam Robertson's running the Roberton's retrospective End Robert
  - Robert But then who is Robert Robertson? End Robert
  - Robert Oh Robert Robertson's our scrum master! End Robert

I always had a positive mental attitude. Not really sure why. Difficult childhood? Last kid picked in kickball? Couldn't get a date? Knew nobody was ever going to give me a thing so I would have to do it myself? Who knows? Way too much to think about for an answer now, but that's OK because...

My problem wasn't that I didn't have a positive mental attitude.

My problem was that I didn't know I had a positive mental attitude.

I was a typical nerd who found solace in math and programming but somehow worked my way up into a dev / project management / digital rainmaker position. My customer wanted me to do something he knew I could do that no one else had been able to do (something boring sounding like "implementing a factory shop floor control system").

He became so exasperated at my pushback (I can't. It can't be done. It's too hard. etc) that eventually yelled at me something like, "You know the business! You know the tech! You're good with people! You have PMA! So what's the f*in problem?) I asked, "What is PMA?" He said "Positive Mental Attitude!"

That conversation changed my career (and my life). And he became my major mentor. (That's why I thought of him in that "Advice that changed your life" thread last week.

This may sound bizarre and counter-intuitive but I think the short answer to your question may be, "You have PMA when you decide you have PMA."

Over the years, I've witnessed countless counter-examples to this: people don't have PMA because they don't know they have PMA so they never "breakthrough" like they could.

I'm so glad I met that mentor. Thanks for reminding me.

Hope this helps.

Exactly. I rolled my own CMS just for this. No images, just html and superfast svg built from database parameters. I'll be launching a full webcomic only site by the end of the year. I hope to include source at some point. I'll keep you posted.

I got so excited by your response, I figured what the heck and turned my original response into a code-generated, html-driven, svg-drawn comic strip and put in on the front page of my portfolio here: edweissman.com. (Hit the 2 big arrows to surf the other 18 comics. For me, this is way more fun than anything else I ever did on that page.)

Enjoy and thanks again!

  - It works. You added 2 things. It doesn't work. Which thing broke it?
  - It doesn't work. You changed 2 things. It works. Which thing fixed it?
  - It works. Two people changed it. It doesn't work. Who broke it?
  - One donut left. 2 programmers went into break room. No donuts left. Who ate it?

Fuck you. Pay me.

(I was going to add a whole bunch of pithy wisdom after this, but I think this is always a good stopping point because nothing good for anyone comes from being grossly underpaid. What did you think would happen?)

I must have misspoke or I'm just not the writer I used to be because this is exactly the opposite of what hundreds of warehouse and shop people have said about me for over 40 years. (about 10% of that work is mentioned here: edweissman.com)

Why is this bad?

Because NO ONE is working the real problem (which is certainly not changing report orientation to leave enough white space for "out of the ERP system" notes). Everyone's dancing around it with semantics, jerry rigs, and workarounds. I.T. should be a trusted business partner. And unsupported's management should be putting them in a position to work the real problem. Instead, they're just another nerd who should shut up, put in a meaningless fix, and stop threatening their managers.

I have worked on warehouses and it is complicated.

Agreed. All the more reason to find out what notes they're adding to reports. Mission critical "notes" outside the system is a giant red flag. I'd rather work the red flag than make people happy. If it's important enough to put on a packing slip, it's probably important enough to be part of the system of record. A good old VSM should identify that and reduce that complication.

Why not? That's what differentiates those who sling code from those who do real Digital Transformation (not the crap our bosses spout off.)

it wouldn’t hurt to answer my questions about how the warehouse operates and ask me to come up with solutions in line with that

This says volumes about what they think about you and worse, what they think about their business and the problem at hand.

Most users are fleas who used to jump 6 feet but now only jump 3 feet because they can't even imagine any more.

Sorry to hijack the discussion and I didn't mean to suggest you should be doing any more than you are. (Believe me, at my rate, I get the job done and move on.) I just enjoyed seeing someone bring up the bigger picture.

Wow! Great question!

This tells me that the root problem here is that development was done before analysis. Broken process. Often broken results. And most certainly broken management.

OP is nitpicking semantics while unsupported is identifying something so much larger: an opportunity to avoid OP's conundrum by doing things right in the first place.

Best wishes, unsupported. I hope you get an opportunity to build what was actually needed in the first place (and may deliver results orders of magnitude higher). But somehow I get the feeling you'll end up just giving them work-around landscape and move on. We've all been there.

TRANSLATION: What would need to change in this business to print the warehouse workers' notes on the pdf before it's actually printed. And please don't supply a response that begins with, "Just don't"

Of course we had schedules but there was very little "planning". Everyone was just there almost all of the time. Anything you wanted to do, someone like-minded was just there. We played cards in the winter, football or frisbee in the shoulder season, ate, hung out, socialized with guests, and of course, studied together. It just worked.

I can still think of a hundred things I regularly did in those days that I haven't done since.

Now I'm an empty nester, tired of pandemic living and tired of working so hard to recreate what came so naturally back then.

Nice to see someone trying to use the technology that displaced so many of us to bring us back together. Best wishes. I think you'll need it.

I got sucked into "leadership/managerial" a few times but quickly escaped.

I just want to build fricking software! It's the coolest thing ever and I was born to do it.

Now I have to do it after hours on my own because I'm so damn busy in meetings all day long.

  - 1 language (DATABASIC) Then it did everything. I still use it now, mostly to connect to other things.
  - 1 DBMS (PICK) Then it did everything. I still use it now, mostly as a system of record feeding 50 other systems.
  - Dumb Terminals. Almost everything ran on the server. It wasn't as pretty as today, but it did the job, often better. Code was levels of magnitude simpler.
  - Communication with others: Phone or poke you head around the corner. No email, texts, Teams, Skype, social media, Slack, Asana, etc., etc., etc 1% of the interruptions.
  - Electronic communication: copper or fiber optic. Just worked. No internet or www, but we didn't need what we didn't know we would need someday. So simple back then.
  - Project management. Cards on the wall. Then we went to 50 other things. Now we're back to cards on the wall.
  - People. Managers (usually) had coded before. Users/customers (usually) had done the job before. Programmers (usually) also acted as Systems Analyst, Business Analyst, Project Manager, Designer, Sys Admin, Tester, Trainer. There were no scrum masters, business owners, etc. It was waterfall and it (usually) worked.

  - 1992, I spent 90% of my time working productively and 10% on overhead.
  - 2022, I spend 10% of my time working productively and 90% on overhead.

  Because of this last one, most of my contemporaries have retired early to become bartenders or play bingo.

  1992 - It was a glorious time to build simple software that got the customer's job done.
  2022 - It sucks. Because of all the unnecessary complications, wastes of time, and posers running things.

  Most people my age have a countdown clock to Social Security on their desktop. 30 years ago, I never could have imagined such a state would ever exist.

OK then please allow me to give you a recent example of ALL 4 OF THESE that made my (Fortune 50) employer hundreds of millions of dollars in real profits...

I built specialized supply chain software that did what nothing else (including SAP and JDA) could do. It supported 10,000 daily orders in 240 warehouses.

Our Big 4 Accounting Idiots spent 9 months and $2 million to conclude that it could not be done. I knew better because my users knew better. (I had already earned my own worthless MBA and had worked as an employee for the same Big 4 firm years prior and knew their weaknesses, which were not hard to spot.)

3 different divisions could not agree on anything. I just pulled them together in the same room at corporate headquarters until they got to know each other and hammered out a good design.

I built the prototype in 6 weeks because I knew I could. I got buy-in from the people that mattered because it's what they wanted in the first place.

12 offshore programmers built production ready software in less than a year. Everyone else had given up on them and their giant firm because of previous failures but I knew better. I never met any of them, in person or online (because of the time zone difference). Everything was written down. That's the only way this could have been done.

The 20 items I presented in my original post are solid gold. Not because of me. But because I learned from brilliant mentors.

Personally I am very surprised that you are are very surprised. The tech only takes us so far. I was lucky to have mentors who taught me the soft stuff too. Their advice changed my life much more than any tech advice.

Hope this helps. :-)

And you can use the slides forever.

Kinda like stand-up comedy. Ever notice that there are 2 kinds of comics, those who riff with the drunks to get the cheap laughs and those who work at an act to speak evergreen truth, getting deep laughs (and even a few tears). We should be like the latter.

I'm too lazy to write a blog post about this at the moment, so here's a quickie reply:

   1. An estimate is better than a guess. An measurement is better than an estimate.
   Feedback from my mentor at a silly presentation of mine that convinced no one. I added data (as suggested) and it killed.
   
   2. It's never the money. (They will always say it is, but it's not.)
   I had trouble selling software. The customer said it was too expensive. That wasn't the real reason. This comment from my mentor taught me to find the real reason.   
   
   3. Never let anyone eat your lunch.
   From an early mentor who kept noticing others take advantage of me (easy when you're in I.T.) without me fighting back. He taught me that sometimes, going along is worse for everyone in the long run. 
   
   4. The best time to turn it on is before it's ready. You'll get plenty of data to finish it faster.
   I.T. (in its typical "pass the buck" mode) refused to turn on the Production Work-in-Process module of our ERP system because the base data (standards, routings, recipes, etc.) was so inaccurate and incomplete that "the shop reports would be worthless". To which my mentor responded, "What better way to fix them? The people responsible for fixing the data will be much more motivated because they want better reports." Great advice I've used 100 times since then.
   
   5. The only good Powerpoint slide is evergreen. If it's not, it's already obsolete.
   Powerpoint presentations are almost always boring and "powerpointless". UNLESS they're real truth (like most good comedy). The best truths are evergreen. And the slides can be used over and over again.
   
   6. Your positive mental attitude makes up for most of your shortcomings.
   From a mentor who saw something no one else saw (including myself). Once I knew "I had PMA", everything changed forever.
      
   7. Learning the difference between an issue and a detail is half the battle.
   Almost every corporate dick fight I've ever witnessed was over nothing. Asking the question, "Is this a detail or an issue?" refocused 90% of my attention to what really mattered. And helped me help others do the same thing.
   
   8. Avoid introducing new jargon. It's already hard enough to understand.
   I got fancy with new terminology in a sales presentation years ago. It failed miserably. This was why. I'm glad I asked. I've never failed because of that again.
   
   9. Isolate. Isolate. Isolate.
   First mentor, our tech lead, about debugging. VERY evergreen.
      
  10. If it's not written down, it's not.
  From another mentor. So obvious but so elusive. Born of a stupid argument about building something where no one remembered anything vocalized before.  
  
  11. The reason everyone we work for sucks is because those who don't suck never call us.
  My cofounder's remark when I was super frustrated dealing with so much suckiness at our customer. Really set me right.
  
  12. If you set aside something urgent to go to Happy Hour, how will our annual report differ? (Hint: It won't.)
  My mentor wanted to talk about very important stuff over beers. I resisted. This question was how he got me to see things differently.
  Urgent is short-term and tech based. Happy Hour is long-term and people based. Both are necessary.
  
  13. What's the good news? (No matter how bad things are, never hesitate to answer.)
  My mentor and boss always focused on the positive, no matter how elusive. I've adopted this philosophy. Sometimes I think that might have been the best thing I ever did.
  
  14. A degree in business is a degree in nothing.
  From a professor in my MBA program. Put everything into perspective before I encountered all those silly suits over my career.
  
  15. The answer to any question is "Who wants to know?" (See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1084127)
  See the link. I've been talking about this for years.
  
  16. No project ever dies but many are abandoned.
  One of my mentors liked deadlines for simple urgent projects but hated them for complex important projects. Took me a while to grok this, but has become much more important over the years.
  
  17. Self praise stinks!
  From my mother when I did my touchdown dance after building something. Great advice (although I still dance once in a while when something works the first time. Sometimes I just can't help myself.)
  
  18. If someone can do something once, they can do it again.
  The underlying principle (provided by my mentor) for a cost absorption system I wrote and implemented in a human based production shop. If they're not doing what they have done before, there must be a reason. Our job is to find that reason." This applies to all of us. I've even used it to "debug myself' many times.  
  
  19. Almost anyone can do almost anything.
  Hard to grok, but so true. The main reason people fail is that they just give up before they succeed. Again, provided by a mention when I was frustrated by junior programmers weren't coming up to speed fast enough.
  
  And my favorite: 20. Ultimately, go with your gut.
  Really important for a right-brained person like me. It reassures me that left-brain thinking is not only OK, but often essential.

   1. An estimate is better than a guess. An measurement is better than an estimate.
   2. It's never the money. (They will always say it is, but it's not.)
   3. Never let anyone eat your lunch.
   4. The best time to turn it on is before it's ready. You'll get plenty of data to finish it faster.
   5. The only good Powerpoint slide is evergreen. If it's not, it's already obsolete.
   6. Your positive mental attitude makes up for most of your shortcomings.
   7. Learning the difference between an issue and a detail is half the battle.
   8. Avoid introducing new jargon. It's already hard enough to understand.
   9. Isolate. Isolate. Isolate.
  10. If it's not written down, it's not.
  11. The reason everyone we work for sucks is because those who don't suck never call us.
  12. If you set aside something urgent to go to Happy Hour, how will our annual report differ? (Hint: It won't.)
  13. What's the good news? (No matter how bad things are, never hesitate to answer.)
  14. A degree in business is a degree in nothing.
  15. The answer to any question is "Who wants to know?" (See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1084127)
  16. No project ever dies but many are abandoned.
  17. Self praise stinks.
  18. If someone can do something once, they can do it again.
  19. Almost anyone can do almost anything.
  And my favorite: 20. Ultimately, go with your gut.

Consultancies exist for one reason only: to maximize the delta between what we charge customers and what we pay employees/contractors. Charging $400/hr for someone we're paying $80/hr is non unusual. In fact, it's probably the norm.

What could possibly go wrong?

1920 - 1970: Technology = Solution for a Problem At Hand

1970 - present: Technology = Solution looking for a Problem to Solve

OP is complaining about inconveniences that are standard everywhere I've worked for years.

I noticed it immediately and pointed it out.

Open your mind a little and you too may notice interesting parallels between the lines of code.

It's way better that your reptilian "Most Snarky of the Year" response.

Classes that I did attend were quiet and empty.

would be:

Meetings that I did attend were meaningless and pointless.

I arrived at school and promptly went to Study Hall...Second period I had another absent teacher...Third period I had a normal class period.

would be:

I arrived at work and promptly went to the break room...Second meeting I had another absent manager...Third meeting I had a normal standup, but no one was prepared and no one cared.

90% of the conversations spoken by students concern COVID. It has completely taken over any function of daily school life.

would be:

90% of the conversations spoken by I.T. workers concern AGILE. It has completely taken over any function of getting any real work done.

One teacher flat out left his class 5 mins into the lesson and didn't return because he was developing symptoms and didn't believe it safe to spread to his class.

would be:

One manager flat out left his team 5 mins into the meeting and didn't return because he had no idea what we were talking about.

I’ve removed the name of my school as it made me uncomfortable sharing such information, but I’ll say that it’s a specialized high school. This is occurring everywhere.

would be:

I’ve removed the name of my company as it made me uncomfortable sharing such information, but I’ll say that it’s a Fortune 500 company. This is occurring everywhere.

This is around 10% of my school. As of Monday, only 30 of whom were reported to the DOE ... which just seems like negligence to me.

would be:

This is around 10% of our transactions. As of Monday, only 30 of which were reported to the auditors ... which just seems like negligence to me.

I spent about 3 hours sitting around today doing nothing.

(Didn't have to change a word.)

Congratulations OP! You are officially ready to join our I.T. department at Megacorp.

Experience in grant-writing, data analysis and presentation will serve you well, say Samantha Baggott and Jonathan McGuire.

You can say that about anything. My version (which I firmly believe):

‘Hard’ skills from McDonald's remain relevant beyond foodservice

Experience in showing up on time, being trained and prepared, caring about customers, and getting done what must be done will serve you well, says edw519

Edit: Oops, I just noticed a similar (and much more insightful) McDonald's reference in this thread from temporalparts. :-)

1. Tell your work! You may be surprised how compassionate and accommodating they'll be. I saw another side of my boss. He made anything I needed possible.

2. See her every day. If you have to move closer, do it. I moved a thousand miles and went remote for years just to be with her. Best decision of my life.

3. If she needs more resources than she's getting, get them. Don't try to do everything yourself.

4. Find a caregiver for yourself. You'll need one. If you don't manage that, then auto-care-give. This is a must. You can't help her until AFTER you help yourself.

5. Hold her hand, eat with her, watch TV, hang out, whatever. It doesn't matter what. It all makes a difference.

6. When things get tough (and they occasionally will), remember, this is actually the normal course of things. It would be worse for her if your roles were reversed.

Respect and love. You must have a wonderful mother to raise such a good child (proof: your post).

Thanks OP for reminding me there's more than one way for a nerd to happy dance. Great post!