140 karma · joined August 3, 2013
I think there also a generational conflict here. Java is a development environment that was born in the big architecture and 'development as enginerring' era of the late 90s. Spring was a reaction to the over engineered J2EE and now even Spring, the early liberator is considered over engineered.
Its our dad's language.
There is still a certain mindset from that era that was conditioned by the GOF and Universities and amaeteurs churning out developers but it is increasingly rare.
In fact I find Java is amongst the most interally introspective and disciplined in terms of coding taste and style.
I can almost guarantee if I look at another Java developers codebase that I can follow their code structure and style without too much effort. I'm not sure that would be the case for the large amount of very individualistic FP code being generated currently.
David Cameron has responded to this crisis by declaring we need to celebrate "Britishness" with more enthusiasm. More enthusiasm? More? We've been celebrating Britishness with the strained determination of a man desperately trying to shit a cricket ball for the past five years.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/16/david-c...
The feeling of being restricted on windows as a developer always gets me running back to linux sharpish.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz0yb2_bbc-horizon-defeatin...
The main negative for me is it doesn't give any feedback on the health of the London tech scene... just the deification of founders (which if you want to talk about elitism has quite a fair few rich kids spending daddy's money!) so the inevitable focus on board level, VCs and the schmoozers.
It would have been better to see more from those who've made it and those who are just starting out for commentary on their difficulties, challenges and feedback to the wider community and/or govt.
ps - got to love the picture in front of a 'smug' fridge
http://www.appliancecity.co.uk/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/...
The point I was making was that there is a massive and grossly unfair generalisation solely about Java developers being made here and all over HN... that they don't really love programming, or want to write the best code possible. You might feel the language precludes that but then I would beg to differ and we are back to blub allegories.
By your own figures (which I don't agree with) the top 20% of a big number is a large amount of talented programmers you have excluded from your search because you cant get past the crud. Developers who have taste, know the JVM inside out and can write tasteful, readable, lightweight (yes) and highly performant code. Code that runs everyday in the big houses such as Google, Twitter, Linkedin...
I've interviewed many Java, Python and Javascript developers and our screening process helped to weed out the very hopeless, not perfect but most.
First a scan of their resume - is it generic, do they have experience in complex projects, a github account, a blog, contribute to open source, opinionated?
Second a real programming test that can test style, consideration of performance, typical gotchas. This should be automated so you can outright reject incorrect output... not fizzbuzz.
Other people more experienced on me have commented on just how bad the average programmers are at simple tests - across all disciplines.
http://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/ http://www.kegel.com/academy/getting-hired.html
I appreciate you don't have the time and you seek out developers who have challenged themselves with a more powerful language as your shortcut to find the elusive 1% but I imagine you'll find it is not insurance against poor architecture, algorithm selection, performance, unreadable code and applications that fall over in their first day.
The generalisations you and others make are unfair to a particular community of developers who just happen use a mainstream language (a sin in itself on HN) but care every bit as the rest.
Some background just for you my friend: I've seriously programmed in (in order) C, C++, assembly, Java, Ruby and Python... and many other languages in between.
I've had to maintain, fix, performance optimise, make sense of badly written code in C, C++, assembly, Java, Ruby and Python.
Stop looking to demonise one set of developers and you will see that poorly written code and stupidity is everywhere, I can certainly see that.
Also thank you for creating an account just to reply to me. I'm honoured.