KGIII

Meh, the thread is dead so I just wanted to say thanks. I am kinda passionate about certain things like liberty. I'm actually pretty moderate, just verbose.

I'm not scared. They don't scare me. They put on a tough face. I've been in places like Somalia. I've stomped all across South America. I've been all across Latin America. I've done South Africa, most of the Middle East, much of Asia, etc...

American White Nationalists marching in parades scare me exactly none. 14 year old American children copying their older brothers on Voat saddens me, not scares me. It doesn't make me very angry. Not anymore. I'm pretty desensitized to it. It mostly just makes me sad.

Seriously...

Think about it... Put yourself in a White Nationalist shoes. You don't even have any real good movies to watch. Even documentaries end with Hitler always getting his ass kicked. In every movie, you're pretty much the asshole. You're, at best, redeemed before dying or going to prison for life.

Man, a White Nationalist can't even really enjoy American History X.

I make fun of them for reading Mein Kampf. "Oh, you expect it to somehow turn out different this time?" I point out the horrible flaws in their race war logic, about how they are horrible out numbered, unpopular, and simply lack the technical expertise or the logistics to achieve even a remote victory in any meaningful numbers.

I make fun of their horrible use of statistics, inaccurate understanding of science and history, and teach them to speak better English. After all, if you're going to convert people to you're side, you're going to have to speak better English. They really aren't very crafty and it's actually kind of amusing that people think they are a serious threat to the fabric of the country.

But, I digress... I just wanted to let you know that there's no bravery. I'm not scared because there's no reason to be scared. I've really invited a few of them to my home. They have my address and a standing invitation. I'd let them visit but not like hold a Nazi rally at my house. The few I have invited are a few that I believe are able to change.

I wasn't doing anything better with my time.

They speak of the Philsophy of Mathematics. I typed a lot out and chose to delete it. In short, it is considered the highest order among Mathematicians. However, us Applied Mathematicians just get on with the real work and have pretty much figured out that they are insane.

It's a bit like true random and infinity. It's best not to think about it to much and only useful for post doc bar conversations or impressing stoned Econ undergrads of your preferred gender. Even then, it's best not to think about it too much.

I get her specialty spectrum lamps. She knits and crafts and lives under them until spring when, I kid you not, she goes out and forages in the woods. (Fiddleheads.) She isn't really a bear.

So, we have a starting point. Now, would you then agree that the primary purpose of a networked group of computers is the exchange of information?

If you will agree to that, will you also agree that communication is information?

If you will agree to that, and to the general concept of the freedom of expression, as an ideal to aspire to and not just a government restriction, would you then agree that even the shittiest people on the planet should be allowed some method for self expression on said connected network of computers in a reasonable manner, so long as said expression is lawful and up until due process, in accordance with their local jurisdiction, takes away said rights?

In other words, they deserve the right to say their vile crap.

Before you say no they don't, I'd like to point out that not that king ago, and in some parts of this world, is censored speech. I'd like to point out that I absolutely guarantee there are those who would silence even you. They find your views absolutely reprehensible. You offend the very fiber of their being. They hate everything you stand for.

Be careful which rights you cede, for you will not always be the decider. Pendulums swing and the repercussions are mighty.

I've traveled, a lot. I've been in combat, war zones, in the midst of refugees, in camps, and in ruins. I've seen what happens when people dehumanize others. I've seen what happens when we lose empathy.

I'm not trying to change your mind. It's the Internet. Nobody ever changes their mind. I am trying to demonstrate a good accounting. Someone has to speak for the rights of all humans. Someone has to have empathy for even the worst among us.

Don't get me wrong. Some folks need killing. But, due process matters, as does empathy, dignity, and honor. Meh... It is just what it is. Things go to hell without it.

As for your point, you don't need a right to bear arms to survive. You don't need a right to speech to survive. You don't need a right to your property, your right to avoid self incrimination, etc... You need those to have liberty.

Edit: email in profile, if you want. I'm quite happy to have rational discourse.

I'd argue your use of 'we.'

Have you ever seen what happens when we dehumanize our enemies? Have you seen what happens when we lose empathy?

These people you hate are, without a doubt, able to exhibit some pretty poor behavior. Most of them are children looking to belong, mentally ill, and those who prey on them - also probably mentally ill. Those that are adults were usually reached as children and come from abusive childhoods.

And you have no sympathy. It's okay, you're not required to. It isn't easy to empathize with Nazis. I can understand the unwillingness to try.

Let's try something.

Do you believe that the Internet should be a basic human right, that affordable access should be made reasonably available for everyone on the planet?

From a logical viewpoint, assuming a pragmatic approach, that'd be pretty handy. From a political approach, it's almost required.

I know, you probably think I'm wrong. Hear me out.

Imagine if Trump just announced he was laying off 75% of the judicial branch ans executive branch tomorrow. Effective immediately.

We pretty much gotta keep them all busy. The people would revolt, otherwise.

Again, I ask what good is a right if one can not reasonably exercise it?

I also suggest we are veering too far from the topic. To be very, very clear - Reddit is under no obligation to allow anything they do not wish to allow.

I don't think you actually read what I said. Please do so. You will note that I point out that no rights are violated and even provide an alternative. You asked a question, I gave you the answer.

Please, really, read all the words and what I write, not what you think I write. Start from the top post, as all my replies are contextual.

You didn't read what I wrote. Reddit is absolutely free to do this. Voat exists, if they want a place to speak.

Because we as a society have decided even the least among us deserve a base amount of human rights and freedoms and those aren't taken away without due process in a just society.

I don't expect to change your mind. It's okay. I'm just really, really pro human rights. I've seen places with massive deprivations of rights. That's not okay.

It's a bit of a problem, really. They take URLs away, they refuse to host them, etc...

So, I'd say what good are rights if you can't reasonably exercise them?

Don't get me wrong, I really don't like Nazis. They are pretty much the definition of bad people.

So, I try to empathize. We all want to belong to something. They like firearms. Me too. I love a good explosion, though I'd much prefer it not actually hurt anyone.

If I can humanize them, I can understand that they too deserve basic human rights.

Yeah, that was a couple of years ago and a clear line in the sand. No illegal content. A good choice. Free speech doesn't include illegal content.

Well, it doesn't to most rational people.

I mean overall. It helps Reddit maintain their goals. I meant more specifically the problem with, you know, the fact that we still have Nazis.

I'd argue they have no moral obligation to do any such thing. However, they should probably make a pretty clear warning sign.

I fear we will digress too far. In short, I'm very pro freedom of expression. I'm glad voat exists, for example. The people there are often horrible, that is true. But, they still deserve to express themselves freely.

The effect is largely the same, now isn't it? In fact, they recently published a study showing the efficacy of their sub closures from a couple of years ago. People leave, effectively silenced.

They can do that. It is their right. It's okay.

It's really, really not easy to stand up for the rights of Nazis. If you're a Nazi, you can use voat.co as they are very free speech oriented. You don't have to be a Nazi to participate, but it's a good idea to have a thick skin if you do go there.

I go there and talk to the White Nationalists. They are pretty much Nazis. They know I'm not white and that I don't agree with them. They don't scare me. They are scared and powerless, looking for meaning in their empty lives, easily swayed, and not entirely unaware of some of the ironies.

I've actually invited a few of them to my home, but no takers so far.

Point is, I'm not sure banning does any good. Reddit can legally do so. I still think there's a better way to deal with the mentally ill and disenfranchised.

That gets installed right after cowsay.

I have my priorities.

To be fair, that's not actually what libertarian means. Well, not traditionally. It is the opposite side of authoritarianism on the political compass. Taken to absurd levels, it is anarchy and would mean no taxes to a government or whatnot.

But, it's a spectrum. It's left it right and a varied distance from authority. You have some libertarian principles. Well, I presume you do.

Not really, no. We grow so much extra corn that it's easily recouped.

Don't get me wrong. This is a problem. This is not okay.

It's just this isn't quite Set The World Ablaze And Panic level bad. Is mostly just annoying. Of those three million acres, they were 'damaged' which is different than 'destroyed.' I suspect we will still have plenty of HFCS and ethanol.

The US has never had a true democracy, and this is by design.

And you wonder why your side keeps losing elections.

If you're curious, I am on the left.

We have SAD here, quite a bit of it. The missus suffers from it a bit, so I plant her under special lights and feed her tasty food until spring. I'm pretty sure she is part bear. She hibernates for the winter.

I, of course, love it.

But, yeah, there are real mental health impacts from the loss of sunlight. It causes actual harm.

Yeah, you know where I live, as I recall? You should come visit. ;-)

Anyhow, we'd have to throw the clock off a full two hours to get any benefit. It's just getting light at 0700 and already getting dark at 1600 - during the shortest days. Daybreak was at about 0700 today, maybe later. It is raining. I couldn't tell and I didn't look online,

It's dark when we go out. It is dark when we come home. We get down to about 8 hours of daylight, I'm pretty sure. 8:15, I think? I could Google that. I'm at about the 47th.

Maybe a better advisor would have helped them find a research topic that engaged them? I really didn't care much about traffic. I cared about Chaos Theory and MDOT had free traffic data and DEC was willing to loan me some hardware. That's it.

I mean, I like traffic now. Back then? I was just meh... But it was something I could bite into and really see where Chaos Theory techniques could apply to understanding traffic. Which is to say, quite well - actually. But, I digress...

A great advisor really, really helps.

Yeah, it really screws with us up here. Once you get up above the meridian, days get pretty short in the winter. Moving those hours around helps exactly none. No farmer has their life improved. It's not saving energy. It's just a dumb setting on the clock.

To put that 3 million into perspective, the US has about 90 million acres of just corn.

The Volvo P1800.

There are still some wild Atlantic salmon, if you don't mind a bit of a drive and hike.