KGIII

I'll have to trust you on this. Our voter turnout was pretty much exactly like it was in 2012 which was just a bit lower than 2008. I live in a purple state, maybe that's the difference? I'm not really sure because, from here, I can't even see the propaganda having had any of the effects you've claimed.

I'll trust you. I doubt you have any motive to be dishonest. It just seems pretty different from what I see - both by the published results and by my experiences talking with people.

Also, I am guessing CPI ton is Clinton and autocorrected?

My view on the freedom of expression is well known, so I'll try to avoid being verbose.

Does the institution receive funding from the government?

If so, can it legally prohibit lawful speech?

SCOTUS has pretty much decided that it can not. In time, this will be a more settled matter. America is still young, comparatively speaking. We will be okay so long as we remember it's a constant effort and not a final state.

> I'm trying to verify her claim.

This is one of those times when you're going to want to hire a lawyer. She should have ample paperwork from the original filings, forgeries would have had to be witnessed, etc...

This here is lawyer and, probably, court territory.

Again, I'm sure there is some selection bias but nobody I know (in the real world) is vocalizing any opinions that the democratic process is in danger. Some vocal people online are, but I've not met them.

Who are these people? Where are they?

It's not confusing. They published some trash. It takes a few moments to verify that it is untrue. If you wait long enough, someone will come along and post a rebuttal and provide citations.

Maybe I give too much credit to my fellow humans, but I know some less than brilliant people and they happily voted D or R much like they have always done. They then went back to work and will bitch about it for a couple of years until they forget and do it again with the next political season.

Meh... Maybe I'm missing something, but that's what I see.

Indeed, it's quite a rarity to find an unincorporated township in New England. Mine is just a letter. The rules are pretty minimal, the municipal services do not exist, and the large animals vastly outnumber the people.

I read this article and was fascinated. I will visit there in my next expression of wanderlust. What a curious place.

See, that's kind of the thing. I admit there is quite some selection bias, but I don't actually think I know a single person who had their vote changed by said propaganda.

Hearing that Clinton ate babies, was nearly dead, was going to take away arms, and was going to force me to install a transgender person in my bathroom didn't actually make me vote for Trump. In fact, I'm pretty sure nothing they said could have made me vote for him.

Again, I'm absolutely sure there is selection bias - but I do live in the State that elected LePage, twice. We sent an electoral vote for Trump and one for Clinton. The Trump voters that I know were probably going to vote for Trump, even if he set fire to a nativity scene while cursing baby Jesus.

I wish there were some way to truly quantify how much impact it had.

Before you yell at me, I will clarify that I'm very much on the left side of the political spectrum.

Didn't she call Trump supporters a 'basket of deplorables?'

I don't think incitement of hate against different groups of people was off limits for either side? There was a whole lot of hate going around.

The total number of people who believe in pizzagate is vanishingly small and I'm not actually sure they can properly mark a ballot without assistance.

They overlap heavily with people who think everything is a conspiracy, probably perpetuated by Jewish people. No, I'm not kidding. You can go to voat.co and watch them in action.

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure they are mentally ill.

Of course I do. It's rather contrived, now isn't it?

We've effectively just said, 'Well, bugger it. We don't have to expand that.' We've all agreed it equals one. That's kind of silly.

I can quote the rules, the reasons, and even helped to author the early versions of the Wikipedia article on the subject. I understand the textbooks, and they are silly.

I haven't found the history of when this was discovered, so I have to speculate. I think it went a bit like this...

Bob, that's his name, was smoking opium one day and pondering mathematics. On a hunch, he sat down at his desk and, between nods, he discovered that 0.999... = 1.

This, of course, is absurd. After all, anyone would notice that the deception lies in the conversion to a fraction. But, we can't have that.

Bob chose to keep it a secret.

Except Bob was quite an opiate addict and only made it about a week before he started telling anyone who would listen.

Unfortunately, so many people heard about it that the higher order of mathematicians decided they couldn't just assassinate Bob and, after all, he was right - and he could prove it!

So, they thought long and hard. How could this be made true? How could this still be right and the order still be maintained?

Eventually, a bright young neophyte named Hank piped up, 'Wait! I have it! Let's just imply a limit!'

They all cheered and headed to the bar to buy Hank a round of drinks.

Something like that. ;-)

In an earlier comment you said you didn't have to expand it. You're right. You don't have to, but you can. There is no rule that prevents you from stepping up to the board and writing 9s until the heat death of the universe, only an imposition made to keep order. Kinda silly, isn't it?

As I said above, mathematics is a language. You can say anything you want. Some of it is trivially proven false, though it is still useful.

I live in the continental United States. Hell, I'm not even that remote. I have DSL and cell service that borders on effective, depending on the season and weather. It's not like I live in Alaska.

People get lost here, all the damned time. They even have cell phones but don't realize they are useful for more than driving directions. Yes, I have gone out and 'rescued' people (plural) who had no signal but had GPS on their phone.

However, once in a while, we don't find them. Sometimes, we never find them. This is just northern Franklin County, Maine. If you follow some pretty simple rules, you'll be just fine. If not, Mother Nature is a powerful force and may very well kill you.

This is nothing compared to the vastness of the ocean.

Oh! I like that. I will counter that I can hold what I believe to be an apple, or close enough to being a single apple. I can not do so with a -1 apple. Horrible, really. ;-)

Yeah, they look like nice friendly things you want to cuddle and pet - unless your first encounter with them is in a swamp while you're in a very inebriated state. (Meaning my state, not the State of Louisiana, though they are often pretty inebriated.)

You have given me one of the best chuckles I've had in weeks. Thanks! Err... If you really wanted, you could probably use a search engine and figure out who I am. I actually am a mathematician. But, you can keep your wager.

Oh, Louisiana. That is where I met a crazy swamp beast that scared the hell out of me. It turns out, it was a Nutria and similar to this frog deal. They were supposed to be a profitable critter to raise but they aren't. No, the one I met crawled out of a swamp, covered in slime, and ate a rotten fish - while staring me down.

It did not look even remotely tasty or like I might want to wear its fur. I can't imagine what people were thinking, kind of like these frogs. Frogs are handy for catching food, however. I am not sure if even gators eat the nutria. They are now an invasive pest species. They look worse when they are covered in swamp slime.

The US is pretty big. I have neighbors that ATV and snowmobile the last few miles to their house, except during the very few months that they can wrestle an old Jeep up there. Google Maps isn't very helpful.

I'd suggest the two are currently intertwined.

Hmm... I don't really have one. Oh, I've made lots of mistakes and done lots of things at the wrong times, but that is what has made me who I am. I kind of like who I am, so I wouldn't want to change that.

Have you considered the productivity that the roads have added?

What happens when there is no place left for the deplorable? The 'net was meant to work around censorship. Look at what it has become.

Reddit is just another brick in the wall. They can do this. Indeed, perhaps they should. But should we cheer it on? What happens when there are no reasonable means left for the deplorable to speak? What happens when censorship isn't fraught, when empathy is eschewed, when due process is forgotten?

Those are not Reddit's responsibilities. They are our responsibilities, as a society. It is very much a human rights issue, but not Reddit's sole responsibility. Right now, registrars refuse to even host domain names.

I'm not saying these are good people. Quite the opposite, really. Cheer the censorship on, it is your right. I'll stand up for your rights too.

I'm not white. I'm quite distinctly not white. They would harm me, if they had the courage and means.

You would deprive them of their liberties without due process and you would do so out of fear. You justify it and call it rational.

That is how I see you. That is what I see when I read what you write.

I don't expect to change your views. I will point out that that sort of thinking is how the US ended up with things like the PATRIOT Act and FISA courts. Fearful people are not rational people, they are rationalizing people.

In ten years, do you want to live in some authoritarian society where every thought and expression must be approved by the public? Where no dangerous thought must be expressed? Where those declared deplorable must be silenced and shunned? Where there exist an oppressed class for their very thoughts, without acting on them?

I do not. I am not afraid. I am more afraid of ceding my liberties and my empathy. I am more afraid of a day when you are not allowed to speak out against Nazis.

I do understand it. In fact, I understand it quite well. I can give you the textbook definitions. I've studied them completely. I hold a Ph.D., you know. You are accepting rote still, as opposed to concerning yourself with the Philosophy of Mathematics.

The ... represents an infinitely repeating numeral, does it not? It is a shorter way of writing 0.999999999999 (into infinity).

Now, you can do that forever and you will never reach a whole number. Ever... Go ahead, try it. I'll wait.

So, we've all happily agreed on some very contrived rules that you'll quote verbatim and gleefully declare to be basic mathematics and I the embarrassment. You'll commit no more thought to the process and, as I've already stated, that's a very good choice.

(Karma for days...)

There's a huge difference between appeasement and allowance of basic human rights, dignity, due process, empathy, and even sympathy.

I have had to lay down suppressive fire. I was willing to do so, but I hoped anyone I hit was killed quickly. I hoped they were killed quickly because, well, I didn't want them to suffer. I hoped they were killed because they were trying to kill the other scared young Marines beside me. Killing them was the only logical thing to do.

I'm not some hopeless naive child. I've personally witnessed human depravities that scar people for life, a fate worse than death.

You're scared of the people on Voat? Go there and read for a week. Go there and talk to them. Go there and belittle them, if you want. Have fun with it. Amuse yourself at their expense. Toy with them and make them dance for your amusement.

When you're done with that, maybe try to change some hearts and minds. You'll have gotten that out of your system and realized how powerless and ineffective they really are. They are powerless keyboard warriors spouting memes and racist slogans in an echo chamber full of logical errors and bad science and bastardized religious quotes.

Also, they hate fat people. Reddit kicked out FPH. No, really, those folks seriously hate fat people, but they tend to stick in their sub.

One sub really likes trees. Like, real trees, not pot.

They are humans. Deplorable humans, I agree. They even have a Linux section. As a Linux user, that makes me pretty deplorable too!

Seriously, go visit them. They are horrible people. However, they are mostly scared children. There's no need to be afraid. They are pretty universally powerless and reviled, even at the national political level - really. No need for hyperbole.

If you want, I will even introduce you on voat.co and you can go harass them until you realize they are just a bunch of really, really stupid, inept, confused, probably insane, brainwashed, morons with a poor grasp of reality and basic literacy.

You're more likely to die on your toilet.

Well, yes. They are insane.

Infinity is a rubbish idea, by the way. I've given it much thought and concluded it is best to just not think about it. Cantor was a lunatic, and I'm not entirely certain that infinity isn't a causal factor.

Don't get me started. It doesn't end well. ;-)

Eventually I go off on the absurdity of 'true random' and our presumption to know the differences between it and unpredictability. It's hubris and madness, all the way down.

They really should stop teaching mathematics by rote. If you're familiar with my posting history, I very seldom say 'should.'

Heh... You kinda prove my point for me.

If you could step up to the board and actually expand the ... for us, we'd be much obliged.

You can keep writing 9 forever and you will never reach a whole number. But, it does reach a whole number and there is proof! So, they made a rule. The rule is, of course, silly. Infinity itself is silly. Not even atoms are infinite. Not even atoms can be infinity divisible.

It's a horrible idea, really. (I have karma to burn.)

By the way, it's a damned good thing infinity doesnt exist. If you had a tape measure that was infinitely long and folded it in half, we aren't really sure what would happen.

Hell, I wasn't using that karma for anything better.

While I'm here... When you're done finding an infinite tape measure, I'd like it if you could bring me -1 apple. No, not a slip of paper representing an owed apple, but -1 apple.

Math and reality are only loosely coupled. Mathematics is a language. It can tell lies. 1 + 1 = 74 See? That's pretty obviously a lie. It can tell stories, physicists are pretty fond of using it for that. It can be so very descriptive and elegant. It can be so deceptive, as we see with the 'well, let's just let that be represented by 9/10' silliness.

It's pretty horrible, really. Like I said, it's best not to think about it too much. It's kind of contrived in a few areas.

This comment might help:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15566320

Right now, they have Voat. But, the recent trend has been more and more aggressive censorship - including from sites that used to tolerate the truly deplorable.

It is a worrying trend. Homosexuality was once deplorable. Transfolk were once deplorable. Atheism was once deplorable. In some parts of the world, they still are. To some people, in your own country, they still are.

Cheer on.

I am not afraid of the deplorable on Voat. You know what does scare me? Children with access to real military weapons, not their daddy's AR. A keyboard warrior with bad grammar and a Nazi flag is a pretty horrible person. I've seen worse.

Rightfully, they just voted me down and refuse to think about it. I can't blame them, really. They were probably taught mathematics by rote and maybe stopped at arithmetic.

No, I'm not confused about it. It's just a horrible, horrible lie. ;-)

If it goes on forever, it can't reach the whole number. But, I can prove it is equal to one. Horrible.

I know it is flagged but I want to thank the mods for not truly killing it. It was mostly civil. The mods were pretty decent, and deserve our thanks.

For the most part, the comments were pretty good too. I read them all. ;-)

Hmm...

This gave me an interesting thought. Well, interesting to me. I give it to you.

What happens when Saudi Arabia gives region to a robot? I imagine it would be assigned. Would it need to be assigned a religion to work at Mecca during the Haj?

There's a short story in there, somewhere.

You assumed I was a free speech absolutist. I am not. I am not an extremist. Rights must have reasonable restrictions. They are things like libel, slander, child pornography, classified material by a person who has clearance, etc...

Those are unlawful and are reasonable restrictions with very, very few restrictions. They may be published for use in the court, whistle blowing, or otherwise outlined affirmative defenses established by law or precedent.

I am not an extremist. I am not an absolutist. The right has reasonable restrictions. The question is where those restrictions are. I think I've explained where I believe those should be, though they are scattered in a bunch of comments.