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BoiledCabbage

6,885 karma · joined March 26, 2017

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BoiledCabbage··on Tree Calculus
I believe this to be correct, where code and data are arguments consisting of binary trees constructed from pairs or can be 'nil:

    (define apply
      (lambda (code data)                       
        (match (code . data)
          [('nil       . z)       (z . 'nil)]   ; rule 0a - construct stem
          [((y . 'nil) . z)       (y . z)]      ; rule 0b - construct fork
          [('nil . y) . z)        y]            ; rule 1 - K combinator
          [(((x . 'nil) . y) . z) (apply (apply x z) (apply y z))] ; rule 2 - S Combinator
          [(((w . x) . y) . 'nil) w]                               ; rule 3a - pattern match case of data is leaf
          [(((w . x) . y) . (u . 'nil)) (apply x u)]               ; rule 3b - pattern match case of data is stem
          [(((w . x) . y) . (u . v)) (apply (apply y u) v)]        ; rule 3c - pattern match case of data is fork
         )))
https://olydis.medium.com/a-visual-introduction-to-tree-calc...
BoiledCabbage··on Tree Calculus
I'm actually going to reply to myself with my understanding of what's written here as the more I've looked at it, the cooler I think it is.

I happened to read this link [1], so that's what I'm basing it off of. Also note, I don't know this at all so I may be flat our wrong, but hopefully this gives someone a good intuition. I would recommend glancing at the image at the top of that link (https://olydis.medium.com/a-visual-introduction-to-tree-calc...) for reference to follow along with my interpretation.

To me it overall seems like similar to a lisp, but focused on binary trees. There are rules 0a, 0b, 1, 2, 3a, 3b, 3c. And the concept is actually pretty simple. Rules 0 are construction rules. Rules 1 & 2 are combinators. And rule 3 is pattern matching which allows for reflection / acting on the shape of code (according to the docs).

First I think of there are 3 main constructions (and via analogy I'll use lisp terms even though this clearly is not lisp and will not directly translate, but I think that will make communication easier rather than using unfamiliar terms).

Being a binary tree there are 3 main basic shapes. There is nil/false/empty that is represented by a single node. There is a "boxed expression" (a single root node with a left child) and there is a "paired expression" (a root node with left and right children). (in the diagram on the link w,x,y,z ... represent "unknown" expressions or maybe arguments if you want to think of them that way). '@' is used as the "apply" operator, but I'm going to call it "cons" even though it is not the "cons" from lisp.

Here is my view:

Construction Rules:

0a - If I cons false/nil with an unknown expression what do I get? i.e. what is "(cons 'nil z)", where z is an unknown expression? The answer is '(z) (or equivalently (z . 'nil)) What I'll call a boxed expression.

0b - If I cons a "boxed expression" with an unknown expression what do I get? What is "(cons (y . 'nil) 'nil) z)"? Answer: a boxed pair: (y . z).

1 - [Note this rule does double duty and starts a new pattern that's kinda cool]. So continuing the pattern, if I cons a boxed pair with an unknown expression (cons (x . y) z) what do I get? Well it depends on the shape of the boxed pair. Specifically what is the shape of x? If it's 'nil then apply rule 1. (cons ('nil . y) z) results in y.

Detour, it turns out (looking from the the perspective of the y and z, and 'cons' being a operator/combinator that this just happens to also be the 'K' combinator.

2 - So in this same boxed pair from above (cons (x . y) z), we said apply rule 1 if x is 'nil. But we've had consistent pattern (nil, boxed expr, paired expr) here so let's follow it now on the shape of x. So if x isn't 'nil, but is instead a boxed expression (x . 'nil) then use rule 2. Or to be explicit: (cons ((x . 'nil) . y) z) reduces to (cons (cons x z) (cons y z)). Here it is helpful to think of cons as "apply" as they define it and not my made-up 'cons', because then it's easy to see that this is the S combinator. Ie (apply (apply x z) (apply y z)).

3 - Ok so we have one stage left of our pattern for (cons (x . y) z). We said if x is 'nil you get rule 1. If x is a boxed expression, you get rule 2. And so if x is a paired expression, what do you get? Well you get a flavor of rule 3. Which flavor of rule 3? Well it depends on the shape of z. And if you've been following there are 3 choices for the shape of z. The same 3: nil, boxed expression and paired expression. You'll also note that this is the only time we have transformations depend on anything in z (the second argument to cons). Up until now z has always been a blackbox and had no affect on our rules -- the first arg to cons always decided what we did. If you think of z as the data argument to cons and the first arg to cons being the code, this is allowing the code we execute to structurally depend on the data/argument. Ie this is your functional pattern matching behavior. Again, thinking of 'cons' as 'apply' here helps.

So let's walk through them, but where we left off we said in (cons (x . y) z), x could be nil and we get rule 1. x could be a boxed expression and we get rule 2. And if x is a paired expression we get rule 3. So a paired expression replacing the unknown x above looks like (cons ((w . x) . y) z).

[A note you can skip: To be consistent with the image in the link I've reused the letter 'x', but the x in (cons ((w . x) . y) z) is not the x in (cons (x . y) z). The 'x' in (cons (x . y) z) is equivalent to (w . x) in the (cons ((w . x) . y) z). Think hygienic syntax replacement for my own convenience. You can also ignore this whole bracketed aside if it didn't make sense.]

Continuing rule 3, a paired expression replacing the unknown x above looks like (cons ((w . x) . y) z). Whether you apply rule 3a, 3b or 3c depends on the shape of the "argument" z. If z is nil (or a base case like 0), you get the fixed expression 'w'. If z is a boxed expression (u . 'nil), you get (cons x u), and if it's a paired expression (u . v) you get (cons (cons y u) v). Ignoring the details, it will conditionally apply the "code" w, x or y to the argument z, depending on the shape of z. In my view that is essentially equivalent to functional programming style pattern matching - they describe it as reflection.

Overall it's a pretty cool system. 3 "basic shapes". A few basic construction rules, 2 combinators and a case for pattern matching. In my view they have an operator that combines cons and apply in an elegant way, and can do pattern matching on it. It seems to really get to the essence of a lot of ideas in the space and very concisely without many assumptions or overhead. And note, while I specified, nil and cons and others, this all when serialized is represented by a single symbol with open and close parens for grouping. It's all just valueless binary trees.

https://olydis.medium.com/a-visual-introduction-to-tree-calc...

BoiledCabbage··on Tree Calculus
This link below gives a better description of it, along with the definitions of the reduction rules. (which I got from further down in this thread)

But what I believe was meant by the above was: "delta E1 E1" creates a new "reduction tree" (my own made up term) with E1 being the left child of this new root node, and E2 being the right child of this new root node - and which then begins applying the reduction on this newly constructed tree.

https://olydis.medium.com/a-visual-introduction-to-tree-calc...

Overall the concept seems pretty interesting - and it's nice to see someone come up with something both novel in the space and at the same time seemly "applicable".

BoiledCabbage··on AI singer now occupies eleven spots on iTunes singles chart
Just like AI comments are more human than any human could ever produce... /s
BoiledCabbage··on Electrical transformer manufacturing is throttling the electrified future
Yah it was an extremely foolish and short sighted EO by Trump, and the country will pay for it for a long time.
BoiledCabbage··on Show HN: A game where you build a GPU
Agreed, truth tables one is important. But it's backwards, you test people on truth tables before teaching them.

If someone is seeing this for the first time they may have never seen some of those gates and you quiz them.

Then finally after passing the quiz, you define NAND and NOR and Inverter.

Swap the teaching one to be the intro to the truth tables one.

Second bit of feedback is the timer. Increase the time allotted. I know them very well and still was struggling to get all the input correct before the timer hit. Or consider possibly just eliminating the timer completely - if your goal is to be sure that they know them.

BoiledCabbage··on OpenClaw privilege escalation vulnerability
> But coding is solved?

My belief, is the people who post this quote thinking it's some big win are the same people who are upset they can't post "stochastic parrot" anymore.

And we all saw how that went.

BoiledCabbage··on In Expanding de Sitter Space, Quantum Mechanics Gets More Elusive
The article and people referenced within it say our universe is equivalent to being inside a black hole. Given their own description, wouldn't it be equivalent to being within a white hole?

In anti-De Sitter space, all world lines converge. In De Sitter space, all world lines diverge (due to expansion of space).

In a black hole all world lines converge (at the singularly), in a white hole won't all world lines diverge as they move away from the singularity? It would also explain why observers get individual pockets of horizons centered around themselves. You start at the center of this enormous white hole and travel towards outwards toward the edge everything near you spatialy becomes far from you spatially as the surface you are in spreads out.

BoiledCabbage··on US and TotalEnergies reach 'nearly $1B' deal to end offshore wind projects
So TotalEnergies agreed to invest 1 billion is offshore wind during thr last Administration. The current Administration doesn't want any investment in renewables so they attempted to block it. A judge said the attempted block was unlawful. So then immediately the admin said something new and that instead there were "national security concerns" with building wind plants - (Which doesn't pass the smell test to me at all) and the project would be held up while untangling those.

My assumption is the company started getting upset at being toyed around and having their 1 billion investment completely stalled for so long. So the admin said we'll kill the wind if you do our fossil fuels instead. So shift your investment away from wind (we kill it and pay you back for what you investws) if you instead do fossil fuels. And that's what's being done.

So previously the company was spending 1billion on wind and getting some subsidies. Now they spend 2 billion, and get paid 1 billion from the tax payer. For them it's at best a wash, though likely a loss since I haven't heard they get subsidies with the fossil fules. And the tax payer instead of paying for tax credits or low interest loans or other subsidies that were part of wind power portion of the Inflation Reduction Act instead pay a full 1 billion dollars to the company.

> The Trump administration will pay $1 billion to a French company to walk away from two U.S. offshore wind leases as the administration ramps up its campaign against offshore wind and other renewable energy.

1. https://apnews.com/article/trump-offshore-wind-energy-climat...

BoiledCabbage··on Remove your ring camera with a claw hammer
> Cameras are in fact the best deterrent.

Kinda funny that your links don't support that.

And I think that's exactly the issue. Doorbell cameras appear to be security theater when it comes to both trying to prevent or recovering package thefts.

BoiledCabbage··on US economy sheds 92,000 jobs in February in sharp slide
90% of those charts have no notable change or inflection point around 2012.
BoiledCabbage··on Pentagon formally labels Anthropic supply-chain risk
> Depending on their agreements, you could argue it's a rented asset. Doesn't change any calculus.

I think your mistakenly thinking of it as an asset. It's not as asset like a house, it's a service. They have a service contract. They have uptime and SLA commitments. That contract has parameters, and changing those parameters means a new contract.

A similar service would be signing up a private company to do intelligence gathering and analysis for the DoD in Asia. They find a company that specializes in Asia and sign a contract. They give them work and the contractors fulfill it. Coming back and saying "we want you now to give us analysis for important decisions in South America." The company would reasonably reply "we don't have the skills to do that in South America. Our team knows nothing about South Am, we're no better than someone off the street at that. There is no credibility behind anything we'd say about South America. And on top our contract was foe Asia". If we want to discuss a plan for hiring people for South Am let's discuss it, but that's a new contract." And then the DoD saying they're a supply chain risk makes no sense.

Or if you want an even more and hyperbolic example they cant take those data analysis to and say we're sending them ti the front lines of Iran. The company say no, and the DoD replying "you're a supply chain risk". They are not renting people, they are signing for a service of data analysis. Similarly they are not renting hardware they are signing for an LLM/intelligence service.

BoiledCabbage··on Pentagon formally labels Anthropic supply-chain risk
> Look I know it's an insane idea. I'm just curious what the most unhinged response to this might be.

I mean what if all the employees stripped off their clothes and walked through the streets naked while barking, then called up their middle school math teachers and barked live dogs then moved to a commune and stood on their heads.

> Writing out a thought I had, someone please critique my reasoning here...

I mean to critique your reasoning, it makes sense to also include a criteria of something they might reasonably do. There are an infinite number of unhinged things a group of people could in theory do. But maybe start with something they would actually have an incentive to do.

Why would they voluntarily dissolve their company, put themselves out of work, release their crown jewels and get nothing for it? Yes it's unhinged but unless I'm missing something bug, they wouldn't do that because they wouldn't at all want that to happen.

BoiledCabbage··on OpenAI agrees with Dept. of War to deploy models in their classified network
So they agreed to the exact same clauses that Anthropic put forward but with OpenAI instead?

So it wasn't about those principles making them a supply chain risk? They're just trying to punish Anthropic for being the first ones to stand firm on those principles?

BoiledCabbage··on Why is Claude an Electron app?
Because Anthropic has never claimed that code is free?

It's pretty easy to argue your point if you pick a strawman as your opponent.

They have said that you can be significantly more productive (which seems to be the case for many) and that most of their company primarily uses LLM to write code and no longer write it by hand. They also seems to be doing well w.r.t. competition.

There are legitimate complaints to be made against LLMs, pick one of them - but don't make up things to argue against.

BoiledCabbage··on NSA detected phone call between foreign intelligence and person close to Trump
What? This is the most convoluted theory I think anyone could imagine. And it seems like it was only posted to distract from the most obvious:

Someone in the President's circle is secretely communicating with (or compromised by) a foreign adversary's intelligence service. They don't want that story getting out as it would make them politically look terrible and so they went to suppress it.

I mean Occam's razor here.

BoiledCabbage··on Why do people still talk about AGI?
> I think what we have is mostly AGI.

I agree that the term AGI is the problem. If I have something as intelligent as a mouse that should be AGI, if I have something a intelligent as a bird that should be AGI. Same is it's as intelligent as a 2 year old human, or someone with an IQ of 75. Those would all clearly be Artificial, General Intelligences.

But the problem is the term AGI also oddly has this bar that if must be equal to our better than human (a standard that the majority of humans would fail based on definition of intelligence alone). Plus multidisciplinary better than all humans (which it would take a super genius to have a human accomplish).

Given the current definition of you took a bright high schooler and made them artificial they wouldn't count as AGI which makes the definition silly.

And that is separate from the entire concept of sentience - which it's unclear if it's a requirement for intelligence.

It's all a bunch of squishy definitions mashed together.

BoiledCabbage··on The Adolescence of Technology
Maybe I'm missing the point as well, but what did it do wrong?

It seemed like you wanted to see if a search tool was working.

It looked to see. It tried one search using on data source KJ and found no matches. Next question would be is the quote not in there, is there a mis-remembering of the quote or is their something wrong with the data source. It tries an easier to match quote and finds nothing, which it finds odd. So next step in debugging is assume a hypotheses of KJ Bible datasource is broken, corrupted or incomplete (or not working for some other reason). So it searches for an easier quote using a different datasource.

It's unclear the next bit because it looks like you may have interrupted it, but it seems like it found the passage about Mary in the DR data source. So using elimination, it now knows the tool works (it can find things), the DR data source works (it can also find things), so back to the last question of eliminating hypotheses: is the quote wrong foe the KJ datasource, or is that datasource broken.

The next (and maybe last query I would do, and what it chose) was search for something guaranteed to be there in KJ version: the phrase 'Mary'. Then scan through the results to find the quote you want, then re-query using the exact quote you know is there. You get 3 options.

If it can't find "Mary" at all in KJ dataset then datasource is likely broken. If it finds mary, but results don't contain the phrase, then the datasource is incomplete. If it contains the phrase then search for it, if it doesn't find it then you've narrowed down the issue "phase based search seems to fail". If it does find and, and it's the exact quote it searched for originally then you know search has an intermittent bug.

This seemed like perfect debugging to me - am I missing something here?

And it even summarized at the end how it could've debugged this process faster. Don't waste a few queries up front trying to pin down the exact quote. Search for "Mary" get a quote that is in there, then search for that quote.

This seems perfectly on target. It's possible I'm missing something though. What were you looking for it to do?

BoiledCabbage··on Maintenance: Of Everything, Part One
What a terrible reply to an interesting and genuine comment.

> but this is such a perplexing comment.

There is nothing perplexing about the comment it's extremely straightforward.

> You... seem to be upset that it leaves out some subjects.

It doesn't leave out "some" subjects it leaves out a ton of subjects which OP rightly raises. Just about every subject on maintenance.

> without shaming the author for omitting some subjects of your choosing.

The books title contains the phrase "Maintenance: Of Everything"! These aren't a few specialty obscure subjects that were left out. It left out just about everything and OP lists some extremely notable ones. And also calls out important topics for society that have previously been undervalued and appear to be undervalued here.

> How does one get upset that an author didn't include handwashing instructions in a book?

Do you not realize the importance that maintaining of hygiene has played in shaping modern society. To post such an insultingly dismissive reply with a comment like "didn't include handwashing instructions" is absurd.

BoiledCabbage··on Ask HN: Is it still worth pursuing a software startup?
The fact that people look to start a business based on searching foe a moat shows they don't believe in free markets. As well as shows what's wrong with Silicon Valley.
BoiledCabbage··on The next two years of software engineering
> in the early 80's, a time when you basically had to invent everything from scratch, so certainly there is no mental block to having to do so, and I'm aware there is at least a generation of developers that grew up with stack overflow and have much more of a mindset of building stuff using cut an paste, and less having to sit down and write much complex/novel code themselves.

I think this is really underappreciated and was big in driving how a lot of people felt about LLMs. I found it even more notable on a site named Hacker News. There is an older generation for whom computing was new. 80s through 90s probably being the prime of that era (for people still in the industry). There constantly was a new platform, language, technology, concept to learn. And nobody knew any best practices, nobody knew how anything "should work". Nobody knew what anything was capable of. It was all trying things, figuring them out. It was way more trailblazing / exploring new territory. The birth of the internet being one of the last examples of this from that era.

The past 10-15 years of software development have been the opposite. Just about everything was evolutionary, rarely revolutionary. Optimizing things for scale, improving libraries, or porting successful ideas from one domain to another. A lot of shifting around deck chairs on things that were fundamentally the same. Just about every new "advance" in front-end technology was this. Something hailed as ground breaking really took little exploration, mostly solution space optimization. There was almost always a clear path. Someone always had an answer on stack overflow - you never were "on your own". A generation+ grew up in that environment and it felt normal to them.

LLMs came about and completely broke that. And people who remembered when tech was new and had potential and nobody knew how to use it loved that. Here is a new alien technology and I get to figure out what makes it tick, how it works how to use it. And on the flip side people who were used to there being a happy path, or a manual to tell you when you were doing it wrong got really frustrated as their being no direction - feeling perpetually lost and it not working the way they wanted.

I found it especially ironic being on hacker news how few people seemed to have a hacker mindset when it came to LLMs. So much was, "I tried something it didn't work so I gave up". Or "I just kept telling it to work and it didn't so I gave up". Explore, pretend you're in a sci-fi movie. Does it work better on Wednesdays? Does it work better if you stand on your head? Does it work differently if you speak pig-latin? Think side-ways. What behavior can you find about it that makes you go "hmm, that's interesting...".

Now I think there has been a shift very recently of people getting more comfortable with the tech - but still was surprised of how little of a hacker mindset I saw on hacker news when it came to LLMs.

LLMs have reset the playing field from well manicured lawn, to an unexplored wilderness. Figure out the new territory.

BoiledCabbage··on Anthropic blocks third-party use of Claude Code subscriptions
Thanks, while we in the end may not agree - I do feel I understand your thinking now. Also agreed, we've probably reached the fruitful end of this discussion and this will be my last reply on it. I'll explain my thoughts similarly as you.

To me it seems more akin to someone saying "I'm launching a restaurant. I'll give you a free meal if you come and give me feedback on the dish, the decor, service...". This happens for a bit, then after a while people start coming in taking the free plate and going and eating it at a different restaurant.

To me it seems pretty reasonable to say "If you're taking the free meal you have to eat it here and give feedback".

That said, I do acknowledge you see it very differently and given how you see it I understand why you feel it's embarrassing.

Thanks for the discussion.

BoiledCabbage··on Anthropic blocks third-party use of Claude Code subscriptions
I appreciate you sharing your thinking.

I think it's reasonable to state that at the moment Opus 4.5 is the best coding model. Definitely debatable, but at least I don't think it controversial to argue that, so we'll start there.

They offer the best* model at cost via an API (likely not actually at cost, but let's assume it is). They also will subsidize that cost for people who use their tool. What benefit do they get or why would a company want to subsidize the cost of people using another tool?

> I don't think "we have the current best model for coding" is a particularly good business proposition - even assuming it's true. Staying there looks like it's going to be a matter of throwing unsustainable amounts of money at training forever to stay ahead of the competition.

I happen to agree - to mee it seems tenuous having a business solely based on having the best model, but that's what the industry is trying to find out. Things change so quickly it's hard to predict 2 years out. Maybe they are first to reach XYZ tech that gives them a strong long term position.

> Meanwhile the coding tool part looks like it could actually be sticky. People get attached to UIs. People are more effective in the UIs they are experienced with.

I agree, but it doesn't seem like that's their m.o. If anything the opposite they aren't trying to get people locked into their tooling. They made MCPs a standard so all agents could adopt. I could be wrong, but thought they also did something similar with /scripts or something else. If you wanted to lock people in you'd have people build an ecosystem of useful tooling and make it not compatible with other agents, but they (to my eyes) have been continuously putting things into the community.

So my general view of them is that they feel they have a vision with business model that doesn't require locking people into their tooling ecosystem. But they're still a business so don't gain from subsidizing people to use other tools. If people want their models in other tools use the "at-cost" APIs - why would they subsidize you to use someone else's tool?

BoiledCabbage··on Anthropic blocks third-party use of Claude Code subscriptions
> It is embarrassing to restrict an open source tool that is (IMO) a strictly and very superior piece of software from using your model.

> Shutting down the other tool, if that's what's in fact happening, is what is embarrassing.

To rephrase it different as I feel my question didn't land. It's clear to me that you think it's embarrassing. And it's clear what you think is embarrassing. I'm trying to understand why you think it's embarrassing. I don't think it is at all.

Your statements above are simply saying "X is embarrassing because it's embarrassing". Yes I hear that you think it's embarrassing but I don't think it is at all. Do you have a reason you can give why you think it's embarrassing? I think it's very wise and pretty standard to not subsidize people who aren't using your tool.

I'm willing to consider arguments differently, but I'm not hearing one. Other than "it just is because it is".

BoiledCabbage··on Anthropic blocks third-party use of Claude Code subscriptions
> Anyway, this is embarrassing for Anthropic.

Why? A few times in this thread I hear people saying "they shouldn't have done this" or something similar but not given any reason why.

Listing features you like of another product isn't a reason they shouldn't have done it. It's absolutely not embarrassing, and if anything it's embarrassing they didn't catch and do it sooner.

BoiledCabbage··on Anthropic blocks third-party use of Claude Code subscriptions
> IDK if Anthropic wants to offer a service at below cost, I don't think they should gate keep which client you access that service over.

Are you going to say why you think they shouldn't? You didn't give a reason.

BoiledCabbage··on Software Craftsmanship Is Dead
> I just took delivery a few months ago of some handmade solid cherry bookshelves.

Was the seller of that furniture the number one furniture retailer in the world?

The majority of furniture purchased is flat pack. Which means the majority of furniture produced and sold is flat pack MDF. Saying that you bought something not flat pack means nothing really.

Yes, you very well could have bought a piece of furniture where the maker took the care to sand the wood with his tongue. But if you're looking to design furniture to be produced and sold, you should expect to be designing flat pack MDF.

BoiledCabbage··on One Number I Trust: Plain-Text Accounting for a Multi-Currency Household
> (This is one of the reasons why only the economically illiterate would propose a tax on "unrealized capital gains": that means taxing people for income they have not actually received, but merely could theoretically receive. Which is both immoral and stupid.)

But your statement misses the important point of situations where people use the unrealized gains as collateral for a loan which they then use (for example to live off of). This in fact effectively "realizing" them without paying appropriate taxes on them. As long as gains are purely theoretical and not used for any transactions they should remain untaxed. As soon as they become "active" by being sold, or for example in unlocking additional assets by being collateral for a loan, they should be taxed.

Same concept as a retirement account. You can sell within a retirement account and rightfully don't have to pay taxes because you don't really have "access" to the cash. It's still "locked" within the account. Only when you withdraw to have access to it and make it active/real do you pay taxes. But if you take out a large loan leveraging that retirement account as collateral (or against an unrealized gain) you are not making it active and correctly should pay taxes.

BoiledCabbage··on Fighting Fire with Fire: Scalable Oral Exams
That's what so surprising to me - they data clearly shows the experiment had terrible results. And the write up is nothing but the author stating: "glowing success!".

And they didn't even bother to test the most important thing. Were the LLM evaluations even accurate! Have graders manually evaluate them and see if the LLMs were even close or were wildly off.

This is clearly someone who had a conclusion to promote regardless of what the data was going to show.

BoiledCabbage··on Tesla’s 4680 battery supply chain collapses as partner writes down deal by 99%
It's incredible there is something wrong with a group of people completely unable to see when someone is lying to them. And no matter how many times they are lied to, as long as they are rich enough they believe them.

I don't know what to think anymore about this. He has continuously conned his way along and does it just long enough to jump to the next con.

Tesla is crashing and somehow people though giving him a huge pay package made sense. Cyber truck is flopping but now he's again living off government graft by having another company buy up the dead weight supply. Tesla is only around because of govt subsidy and now that that's dead he's turned to another govt spigot. While supposedly being opposed politically to what he's doing.

And time and time again people still make up excuses because they can't believe they were conned.

Probably the biggest sign AI is going to flop is him starting talking about it being right around the corner.

Little technical skills, no forecasting ability, we saw how much his "efficiency management" philosophy flopped when done in public via DOGE (vs behind the scenes in a private company) and yet people keep falling for it. As long as he can keep spitting out BS, people keep falling for it.

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