Rent-Stabilized Housing Is Disappearing Fast in NYC
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It has been shown time and time again that price floors or ceilings very rarely help a market be efficient. Quite the opposite usually.
But the classification doesn't matter to me personally at all. If the apartment went from $2400 to $2600, while it was decontrolled, the affordability hasn't changed that much. Meanwhile a unit that was $1900 several years ago could be $2400 now because they reset the rent every time the tenant switches. It is much less affordable, but it is still rent controlled. This data is not going to help you figure out if things have gotten significantly less affordable.
Which really means this is just a map of where median rents are close to the line between rent controlled and not rent controlled. Notice that the areas that are much more expensive don't show change, since everything was over the line to begin with. The places that are really cheap also don't show a huge amount of change because even after increases the units are still rent controlled. So overall it's good data but it's not telling you that much.
i.e. it doesn't matter that I'll pay market rent for a rent-controlled unit I move into today. What matters is that the yearly increase in my rent will probably not outstrip my income over the long term.
They are two different things.
"Rent Control" is something that specifically applies to residents occupying a unit prior to a specific day in 1971 and their qualified heirs.
The number of units under price ceiling have an insignificant impact on the market anyway.
Personally I think if we really want to subsidize housing for some New Yorkers of modest means we should do so with vouchers.
Also. http://nymag.com/news/features/housing-projects-2012-9/
The problems are a result of the political will shifting and the funding disappearing.
However, the free market has generally been a terrible provider of low-income housing solutions. There's a long, long history to this from shanty towns to tenements. That's why basically all developed countries have some type of social housing component from demand-side subsidies to public housing or regulated stock.
When we lose permanently affordable units, it is invariably extraordinarily expensive to replace them given land costs and the size of subsidies that are needed. Contemporary homelessness emerged in the late 1970s and early 1980s in both San Francisco and New York as both cities started to lose single-room occupancy hotels or SROs.
1) We remove building restrictions around the city that keep new taller apartment buildings from going up. Yes, almost all of NYC is developed land, but many parts of Brooklyn, for example, are full of one and two story buildings that aren't using the space effectively.
2) We upgrade the mass transit systems to handle the increased population. The subway system is already strained to the breaking point, and the buses can't help enough without getting personal cars off the road to free up traffic.
Bombing the city in particular should be considered. Bombs could be supplied cheaply by the US army, where they are plentiful, and they could achieve the same level of devastation that rent control has produced in parts of NYC like the Bronx. Of course, they are also other ways to achieve the effects of rent control, like arson, bringing back Mongolian hordes from the dead, etc.
What matters is that we can have an open, transparent debate about the best way to ruin the real estate stock of the city.
Stop this devastation bullshit. Non-resident tenants/illegal hotels likely dwarf this number significantly.
60% of all NYC housing units are under some form of rent regulation - either rent control, rent stabilization, or some other form of rent protection. Only about 40% of the housing stock is market-rate.
Of course those units aren't in Manhattan south of 96th street or hip Brooklyn, so the type of people who write blog articles don't care.
Economically, they are all rent control. And 60% of the city is subject to it.
It means that you've removed the incentive owners typically have to keep the place looking nice, repairing damages, etc.
Why invest anything if you know your rate of return will be low or negative?
I know liberals like to try to make unicorns exist but economics cuts through most of the lies and bullshit of politics.
The irony of advocating for a liberal housing market, then turning around and claiming that this is not only apolitical, but also politically opposed by liberals, is delicious.
Cat got your tongue, comrade?
Still lol'ing about you calling me "comrade."
Not everyone is happy paying several times the rent of their neighbors, just because they were there first.
We're also not really happy that a lot of the housing is slum-quality, since landlords generally want their tenants to move out and the law obliges them to make sure the guy paying $3000 and the guy paying $500 are equally miserable.
I lived here through the hard times when the neighborhood was shitty and filled with derelicts, winos and prostitutes.
We all kept the building clean and nice. We lived in the building when _nobody wanted to live here_. We chased out the crooks who used to try to mug people in our elevator and kick open doors. The landlord made improvements to the building because the way the rent control law is designed, _they have to_ to get rent increases.
And we're still here and a great tenant and great neighbors.
Oh and of course the landlord has been trying all sorts of illegal means to get us (and the single-digit handful of other controlled tenants, 100+ unit building) out - and regularly gets verbally slapped around by a judge in housing court. It's a good thing we held on to hold on to _all of our records related to being in this apartment all the way back to 1970_...because we had to.
Try doubling it. For starters.
Trying to control prices directly has a track record of backfiring horribly, for reasons which are well understood by economists and uncontroversial.
This is demonstrably wrong.
Arson was involved in 7% of the fires and almost all in already abandoned buildings.
Fire burned the bronx because city budget cuts closed fire departments, reduced fire inspections and caused hydrants to not work. FDNY administration rigged the closures to not affect the neighborhoods they lived in.
The linked article directly refutes that claim three different ways.
It seems like the direct subsidy would have a less distorting effect on the market.
In fact, increasing the efficiency of the housing market is one of the best ways to increase the number of such places. The downside is such places will probably not be highly desirable parts of New York City.
EDIT: I've replied to a post that is undergoing on-going editing.
Following this line of thinking... is it "stealing" when schools are built, police stations are funded, or sanitation workers are paid to pick up trash? Starting from your point of view will likely not get far in a discussion that begins with "rent controls".
Of course, if you'd prefer to avoid this "theft" altogether and are in the NYC area, I know some nice places in Van Cortlandt Park where you can set up a log cabin and forget about taxes.
Allow me to test this theory (that merely living in a society gives consent to what would otherwise be theft) with an analogy: You have two routes to work, route A and route B. On route A it takes you 10 minutes to get to work but you are guaranteed to be mugged. On route B, it takes you 45 minutes to get to work and you won't get mugged.
If for whatever reason, perhaps you are running late and if you don't get to work on time you will be fired, you choose to take route A, are you consenting to be mugged? I certainly think not.
Really, your theory is not so much about consent as much as it is about the origins of rights. It sounds like you are a believer that rights originate from society (government), which is something I would disagree with.
> Judging by your username and posting history, you'd prefer to argue from nuts back to soup, rather than attempt to address valid concerns ("to rent stabilize, or not rent stabilize") within existing fungible frameworks (the rat's nest that is NYC politics).
Au contraire! Most people tend to handle these kind of political topics in a very utilitarian way; "which choice is most efficient?", or if you have a horse in the race, "which will net me the most benefit?".
While I agree that rent control is terrible economic policy, I want more people to approach this issue, and other political issues, in a principled manner. Rent control is theft, and it should be recognized as such.
I don't know where rights derive from, nor am I really interested in figuring that out in a discussion regarding rent control. I am a utilitarian, but I am also a firm believer that a completely free market can create inequality that is untenable in the long-term. Rent control in its current NYC might not be the answer, but, in general, housing programs ensure that all people in a relatively rich society (USA) have one of their basic needs met. People that don't have their basic needs met, whether those needs are met through their own action or through cooperation with others, tend to get violent.
To be equally extreme as you: please don't call the non-existent police when "the poors" storm your mansion due to their sub-par housing conditions, fifty years after the "theft" of rent control ends in your utopia.
Perhaps you have a very different idea of what mugging involves. Generally mugging means you are physically assaulted and then your property is forcibly taken from you.
>Take route A and get your employer to reimburse you. Or, find a new job that isn't going to fire you for taking route B. Or, pay someone else (the government) to get the "mugger" off of route A.
You didn't answer the question. In the scenario if the person takes route A they are guaranteed to be mugged. If they take route A, for whatever reason, are they consenting to be mugged?
>Your analogies belie reality
You've never taken a philosophy class or participated in any thought exercises involving moral dilemmas? The purpose of the analogy is not make a perfect model of the world. It is to test your theory on consent.
>They'll bitch and moan and play NIMBY games, but I don't see people revolting over these "thefts".
I don't know what a "NIMBY" game is and I'm not sure why you introduced the idea of revolting. Why bring up red herrings?
>I am also a firm believer that a completely free market can create inequality that is untenable in the long-term
It is unfortunate that you have a negative bias against free markets, but it is not surprising. Most people have false beliefs about what a "free market" is.
>please don't call the non-existent police when "the poors" storm your mansion due to their sub-par housing conditions, fifty years after the "theft" of rent control ends in your utopia.
It's clear that you don't know what my "utopia" is? Why would police be "non-existent"? I don't have a mansion, but I guess if it's a utopia I might as well have one. And as long as it is a utopia why would there be poor?
Why are you so occupied with the idea of violent revolt? Is this a non sequitur attempting to lead people to believe that a free market inevitably results in violence?
Property is a social construct. If humans decide these are the rules of property, then they are the rules of property. If your username is indicates your position, your beliefs are outside of the mainstream and your definition of property is outside of the mainstream. If you really want to have a conversation, describe where you stand. Otherwise, the answer is that theft is not necessarily involved in the transfer of wealth from A to B and you have not established that theft is involved in this context.
While I'm not aware of any polls on the subject I would guess that your concept of property is what is "outside of the mainstream."
>theft is not necessarily involved in the transfer of wealth from A to B and you have not established that theft is involved in this context
Your wording here seems to indicate that you have a contradiction in your own view of property. If the wealth was not A's to start with, then how could it be transferred away from A and to B? If A did not own the wealth in question, why is it in his possession? Where did A get the wealth from? What does it mean that it was "transferred" to B? Does B now own the wealth?
>If you really want to have a conversation, describe where you stand.
Rent control is theft. The marginal difference between the market rate and the rent control rate is being stolen from the property owner.
If you are talking about theft legally, then clearly there is no contradiction that a transfer of wealth from A to B can occur without it being theft and without it being whatever notion of consensual exchange you hold (which I'll take for granted is compatible with the incumbent system). Taxes are legal. Judgments calling for transfer of wealth from one to another are legal. I think surely you are not saying I am contradicting myself applying the legal system as it is, are you?
In the current system, rent control isn't theft because the marginal difference, by definition does not belong to the property owner. The system that enforces their property claim is the same system that defines what their claim is. Without that system, their claim is neither justified nor well defined.
So let's move away from legality and law. Your original question must have been one of morality, not law. My response is that I, personally, don't think property is moral or immoral because I do not take it as a priori. It is a human system. It has consequences. Its consequences are what can be judged on morality. On this count, I am heterodox. However, I understand how others think. Others, basically the entire history of property, actually, takes taxes levied and property rights regulated by the authority that justifies them as legitimate.
What notion of property do you have?
You are correct in your assumption. Perhaps I should be more explicit in that premise, as this seems to get lost on a lot of people. My fault.
>My response is that I, personally, don't think property is moral or immoral because I do not take it as a priori. It is a human system.
Surely, property in and of itself is not moral or immoral because we are talking about inanimate things. But the ownership of property, if you agree that property can be owned, does lead to questions of morality.
I am not sure I follow when you say property is a "human system... it has consequences". Surely all discussion of morality involve humans, correct? We certainly don't condemn lions as immoral for killing and eating antelope; or the mallard for reproducing forcibly with a less than willing female.
>What notion of property do you have?
I am of the belief that property is an essential element of liberty. If someone has the right to say what they want, or worship how they will, or have relationships with others how they see fit, or whatever they want that is not initiating violence against others, that right is valid as long as they have property to perform those rights on. They cannot go on someone else's property and be entitled to act however they want, without the owner's permission.
Now, just to be clear, I am not talking in the context of our current system, even though there are similarities. I am talking theoretically. This is important because I believe property rights pre-exist the state; that the right to own property is a natural, inalienable right. (In case there's any confusion when I say "right to own property" I do not mean that everyone is entitled to have property, but rather the rights which someone has as a property owner). So I would disagree with your statement that "property rights regulated by the authority that justifies them as legitimate," assuming the "authority" you refer to is the state.
With the view of a natural right to property, it is clear that theft is a "crime" even absent codified law. Furthermore, any codified law which sanctions theft in any form is a violation of natural rights, is immoral and is invalid.
>My personal views on property are most certainly fringe.
You are in good company. While many believe in the notion of natural rights, few hold an intellectually consistent view in applying what it would mean to respect natural rights today.
Edit: up vote for you for fostering an intelligent conversation and not resorting to ad hominem attacks.
I spoke about property intending to mean the notion of property, not the physical things that we call property, to clarify. In fact, I see entirely in the word property the notion of ownership, and likewise I only see the word property meaningful in the context of the notion of ownership. Without this, things are just things doing their thing.
So, I take it to be true that property is, not being an intrinsic attribute of things, to be a human system: A system of relationships between human beings. I believe it is possible to consider human relationships without morality coming into account, morality being a complex interaction between the nature of the world and the way humans act in it. I am being very wishy-washy, so I'll drop the point. I think it would be hard for me to clarify what I mean.
So, that leaves us with the notion of natural rights. I have to acknowledge that it is a useful notion. Liberalism has been a powerful force in the world for centuries and it rests on the idea of natural rights. That cannot be denied.
However, that is merely the idea of natural rights. I cannot take that as basic. What I take as truly fundamental is an almost tautological statement: What is fundamental is the way things go. When you go against the fundamentals, you get problems, resistance. Sometimes you can brute your way through it, but you always leave, by definition, problems in your wake. If there weren't problems, then it wouldn't have been contravening the fundamental. Sometimes, you can't even get a compromise.
To move from the abstract to the concrete, as an example the second law of thermodynamics is fundamental: That's the way things go, and you can't contravene it. Mallard ducks have violent mating rituals, human power is wasted trying to change that. It is beyond human power. It is duck fundamental. To take things as they are is fundamental.
When I observe humans and their societies, I can easily note that natural rights are violated. They are not fundamental. Natural rights have power in two ways: When humans exercise, respect, and enforce natural rights, they have power. When humans need to justify themselves to each other, they can use natural rights; this is another aspect of their power, the moral aspect.
When you take this way of thinking in a logical framework to its conclusion, you get critical theory. Critical theory is a fun tool. It digests all morality and rationality, breaking it down into power; power is premoral, prerational. Human power applied not to labor, or industry, but to social relations.
So, I have not much to say about ideologies (coherent systems of ideas) except as they are rendered material and thus embodied in the fundamental way of things. When I look at our society, I see conflict as intrinsic to its nature. I think these conflicts can be avoided, but to do so requires coming to grips with the reality of social relations and letting ideas be our subordinates instead of our masters.
You're willing to discard a lot of ideas to find a world that you think is good, which is a good thing. I am willing to discard all ideas and always work with a blank slate.
I kind of started rambling there, and I don't have a punchline or anything. I'll just leave it at that. It was a nice conversation.
The Bronx is no Williamsburg, but it's changing. Your snark is well-taken, but at least pick a city that's actually doing shitty... like Camden, NJ, or a decaying Rust Belt city.
> In this new era of open data, you should not need to know how to write a PDF scraper to find a reasonably priced place to live, or discover where you are about to lose one.
I'm having a hard time imagining how it would cost $50,000 to export data.
[1] Or did, on average, a few years ago. Regardless, this is close enough for our purposes. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/nyregion/09salaries.html?_...
Real estate regulation in its current form, especially in NYC, derives from the legacy of over-crowded tenements and massive blocks of slums. Sure, the overall quality of life has improved in NYC due to building codes and public sanitation, but totally removing rent "controls" (the general term, not the NYC term) seems like a slide towards poorer living conditions for the lower and middle classes.
http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20140430/new-york-city/rent-stabilized-apartments-are-being-occupied-by-millionaires-records-show
The way you throw that link out there in conjunction with "helps a select few," would let an uninformed reader think that rent-stabilization is an even split between people "milking the system" and "worthy recipients". I find that hard to believe. New rent-stabilized units have strict income limits during the application process [1] , and individual existing units have income limits. When that income level reached by the occupants, that unit falls out of the rent-stabilized category. Furthermore, looking at that link suggests that the "luxury exclusions" are working as intended: all of the requests for deregulation due to income were approved and the rents returned to market rate.
By no means is the current system perfect, but the sentiment here seems to be "kill it with fire."
[1] https://a806-housingconnect.nyc.gov/nyclottery/lottery.html#...
It's very well served by public transit, so anyone who works there can commute from elsewhere.
No, high rents do not result from a group of greedy, fat rich guys, who wear monocles and enjoy preying upon the poor.
I'm just trying to point out that the majority of the comments in the thread are focussed on price inefficiency instead of actually being concerned with problems of poverty.
But you raise a great point because _zoning_ is absolutely the biggest market intervention problem...and that certainly is a problem of greed.
Compulsion is the problem. That's why being a mugger is frowned upon and being a mechanic, generally, is not. Both are greedy, or look out for their self interest. It is compulsion which makes building restrictions abhorrent. Similarly, it is compulsion which makes rent control abhorrent.