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Comment by Udo | Hacker News Reader

> the English How are you? or the German Wie geht's?

As a cultural aside, I would like to point out that the German "wie geht's?" is used to actually prompt a superficial answer about one's state. It's perfectly acceptable to reply with information like "meh, I'm having some trouble". The same goes for almost every other country.

But the (US) American "how are you?" does not afford this. Like the article describes, anything but "fine, thanks, and you?" is not considered a valid response. This still trips me up when talking with Americans...

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I don't claim to be the most socially clued-in person in the world, but as an American I hear people say things other than "fine, thanks" in response to "how are you?" all the time and think it's pretty normal.

Although it's true that any answer other than "fine" tends to invite a response -- like if I say "yeah, it's been a long day" the other person would probably say something like "well, at least it's nearly over" or something to acknowledge my state before moving on. But still, you can answer the question a number of ways in normal conversation, as long as it's a fairly superficial answer as you say.

What trips me up is that in the UK (where I'm living currently) it seems like it's pretty common to ask "Are you alright?", which in the US means something like "You look terrible, is anything the matter?" but in the UK seems to be more or less equivalent to "How are you?"

That's not exactly true.

It's completely proper to say "Fine, thanks", "Great, fantastic", "meh, not bad", "uggh having the worst day" or anything in between to "How Are you" in the US or Canada.

Sure, you wouldn't say that to a perfect stranger but if a friend or family member leads with "how are you", there is nothing weird about giving an actual response.

I would like to expand this a bit.

Acceptable responses to "How are you?":

"Fine, thanks." - Tells the asker that you may not be up for conversation.

"Doing well, and you?" - Tells the asker you may be up for some conversation.

"Well, you see, last week..." - Tells the asker you've had little social opportunities in a long while and he's staying around for a bit.

Isn't this the key point, though? The answer to that question depends entirely on the context of your relationship with the person asking it.

If a client calls me up and asks how my day is going, the socially acceptable answer is "It's going great, thanks!" with the addition of some remark about the weather, that one is looking forward to the weekend (if it's a Thursday or Friday), etc. My client doesn't really care about my day, they're just asking because it's a social nicety. (They probably do care to the extent that if I break down and start sobbing, or there's just a choked gurgling sound at the other end of the phone, then they may well not get their money's worth that day...)

On the other hand, if my wife asks me how my day has been, I can reply honestly and candidly - though, again, if she's busy or she's had a bad day herself or she's asking this question whilst spooning food into my son's mouth, maybe I will temper my response accordingly.

An understanding of these sorts of social niceties based around context is something that the socially-aware take for granted and, clearly, the author of this article and people like him find very difficult.

It's not easy but it's not cultural. I was responding to the commenter who claimed that other countries other than the US expect or allow for a real response to the question.

And I think that's simply false. A stranger in the middle of the street in Berlin is just as uninterested in your day than one in Boston. And a friend is just as interested.

In the US, the sincerity of the asker can vary quite a bit; when I ask I usually want to actually know how someone is doing. The type and depth of the relationship between the asker and the askee can also determine if "How are you?" is sincere, cursory, or even rhetorical after a fashion.

Now that I think about it, that's possibly even more confusing/frustrating to non-US speaker than what you describe! Sorry :)

I think familiarity (or lack thereof) is a big part of the puzzle there. Assuming I'm in the US, and I'm asked "how are you?" by a random sales person, my first thought is "you have no business asking me that". But if, say, I'm greeted at the hotel, I somewhat enjoy the display of fake interest and answer with an automated "fine, thanks". I get the different contexts, but it still leaves me with a lot of ambiguous situations.

Body language and attitude right after the question is often a good indicator whether the asker expects a response or not. A good strategy if detecting this proves problematic, is to do or fake a breath before starting your response, that's plenty of time for that body language to kick in and gauge the asker's interest.

Familiarity is a good clue, but the difference is really just informality, which you can also have with strangers especially if there is any sense of solidarity.

If you meet someone who is very low-key and egalitarian like an old hippie or punk or the like, you may actually alienate them with "fake" responses because it is fake and not open, and might imply that you perceive a status difference.

But even with a status difference, someone working as a valet could say to a somewhat uptight and wealthy customer "hot day", or similar, and if the customer is not totally mean and uncool he will respond pleasantly to this and the formality level will be a bit reduced. But someone who thinks he is high-status probably doesn't want to hear a long paragraph about the valet's life, because that guy is an asshole. It is true that a man shouldn't complain to people that his wife is on her period without extreme caution at best.

In the same way, I cannot go around using "du" or "tu" with everyone I meet either and "too much information" is a thing almost anywhere.

Here's a trick: if asked "how are you?" by an American, and you're not fine and/or don't want to pretend to be fine, shrug your shoulders and say:

"Same old, same old."

(As in, it's another day full of the same old problems as yesterday.)

This will prompt the American to make a generalized expression of sympathy over the countless petty indignities of life, without feeling a need to inquire as to exactly what specific problems you're dealing with.

It's pretty similar in the UK to your description of USA [I assume you mean USA when you say Americans and not any of the other 41 American countries? Bugbear, sorry].

In the UK in many areas we say "[Are you] Alright?" and the response is "[Yes,] [Are you] Alright?". You are not supposed to say whether you are "alright", just answer "Good" or an equivalent. It's analogous to the traditional [middle/upper class] "How do you do?" to which the response expected was "How do you do?". The follow up is usually what the weather is like or something about traffic ...

[I assume you mean USA when you say Americans and not any of the other 41 American countries? Bugbear, sorry].

Which of those other 41 countries have "America" in the name? Let me know and I'll be sure to consider them when using the word "Americans".

Do you ever use the word "European" or the word "Asian"? If the founders of the USA were programmers they'd probably avoid that unnecessary namespace collision.

I think a more accurate analogy is between "Eurasian" and "American." How often do you use the term Eurasian?

In practice, most references to the people on the American continents are to North Americans, Central Americans, or South Americans. Referring to the collective as 'Americans' is rare and virtually meaningless, given the total lack of shared culture, language, or ethnicity between say, Canadians and Brazilians, comparable to comparing Britons and Chinese.

And in that rare case, context should make clear whether you mean 'people of the Americas' or 'inhabitant of the United States of America.'

It really isn't an issue and I've always been baffled as to why anyone should have problems with the demonym American as it is popularly, and correctly, used.

>Most references to the people on the American continents are to North Americans, Central Americans, or South Americans. Referring to the collective as 'Americans' is rare and virtually meaningless

The terms Latin/Anglo-Saxon America are just as used used exactly to highlight this aspect of the continent.

>given the total lack of shared culture, language, or ethnicity between say, Canadians and Brazilians, comparable to comparing Britons and Chinese.

This is not true. Apart from Canada and the US the rest of the Americas are actually quite close culturally.

Agree completely. My wife is Brazilian and she dislikes that term, but what else can you say? United States-ers? Technically Mexico is the United Mexican States, so that won't work either!

The silly thing is that it's viewed as a form of linguistic imperialism, where in reality it's just where the chips fell. And it's not limited to just that term. In our attempts at political correctness we often make a bigger mess of things. The term "Oriental" had fallen out of favor, and now we say "Asian" which to me is horribly imprecise. In Brazil, my nationality is "norteamericana" (North American), which of course is unfair to the Canadians and the Mexicans.

At some point you just have to accept it as the convention and move on.

I have lived in the US my whole life and I do not find that to be the case.

It is true that "how are you?" has the double meaning of "<generic greeting>" and "really, how are you doing?" but the fact that it can mean the first does not mean that it cannot mean the second. You learn from context which meaning is intended. It is also not unusual to ask the question in mode 1 but not be flustered when someone responds in mode 2, especially if they are a friend.

This may seem confusing, but there are lots of phrases in lots of languages that have shades of meaning depending on context, so it is not unique.

As an American, I prefer the extremely unsettling response of just taking a few moments to stare into their eyes, attempting to catch a glimpse of their soul and trying to determine if the asker is sincere in their enquiry or not... then saying "Fine, thanks, and you?".

That's why I always respond with "Terrible!" or "Awful!" or, a personal favorite, "Worst day of my life!" combined with a big smile. Really throws people off and is an easy segue into more meaningful conversation. But it's mostly just to disrupt the monotony of "fine, thanks, and you?" Oddly enough, if I really am having a bad day, then I'll answer with the normal "fine, thanks, how are you?"

It really depends on what type of relationship you have to the person asking it in the US in my experience. A stranger or a person you know in a professional manner and yes social doctrine seems to dictate you should reply with a positive remark. But while it is still intended as a greeting in more friendly situations, it is quite common for me to give and for people to give me vague but non-positive answers. For instance 'shitty', 'uhg don't even want to talk about it', or just staring with dead eyes and shaking your head no (while I don't actually know that this last one is acceptable, I use it a lot and love it, and no one seems to give me shit about it).

What seems to be unacceptable and would probably be in German also is just completely unloading with all the problems of your day in detail. Basically keep it to under like 10 words and it is an acceptable answer among friends, at least in my experience.

It doesn't have to be fine, but it has to be optimistic. "Long week, but the weekend's almost here, amirite?" Perfectly OK.

That's often repeated but not universally true. When the cashier at the grocery store asks me how I'm doing I might say "been better" or something, as you describe for wie geht's, and similarly when I ask them how it is for them they sometimes say something like "ready for the shift to be over." It is very common. But maybe this is demographic or regional - I would not expect older people from the South in the upper class to like this kind of informal response.

edit: I would appreciate it if whoever decided to follow me around downvoting all my posts for no apparent reason would provide feedback on what is wrong about my advice regarding idiomatic use of the English language.

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