Ancient colour revealed on the Parthenon Sculptures | Hacker News Reader

Ancient colour revealed on the Parthenon Sculptures

britishmuseum.org

42 pointshuxley21 comments

" It has often been assumed that they, like other Classical objects in the Museum, were once painted with colour, but until recently no firm evidence had ever been found."

Really, British Museum?!

* British damage to Elgin marbles 'irreparable' - http://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/nov/12/helenasmith

* Cleaning scandal at the British Museum - http://www.parthenon.newmentor.net/cleaning.htm

(there is even a whole section on the museum's website: http://www.britishmuseum.org/about_us/news_and_press/stateme...)

Also: http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/ancient-greece/hi...

And while on the matter, I've yet to understand why the Parthenon marbles are still not returned where they belong: in Parthenon.

And compare these "successes" in achieving whiter then white with what the German researchers, especially Brinkmann, achieved (obviously thanks to not scrubbing all the traces of the color from the sculptures):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gods_in_Color

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinzenz_Brinkmann

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UsYHo5iarM

http://www.in-greece.de/griechenland/foto/15445-stele-der-pa...

Thanks for these, they're informative and interesting.

As to the Parthenon marbles, yeah, I agree with you. It would be good to see an Imperial theft redressed. Even a couple of centuries after Elgin did his deed, it matters.

> It would be good to see an Imperial theft redressed.

It wasn't a theft, but a duly-authorised removal. What's more, had the Earl of Elgin not removed them, they might have bee destroyed along with so much else a few years later during the Greek Revolution.

We have some pretty good differential evidence suggesting that they would not have been destroyed in the Greek Revolution, if that's the specific threat you're worried about. Elgin did not remove all the marbles, but only a portion, so we can easily see what happened to the ones left behind. He removed 1 of the 6 caryatids from the Erechtheion, for example; the 5 that remained in Greece are still extant. In addition, he removed about 80 meters of the Parthenon frieze; the 50 meters that were left are also still extant. These are all in the Acropolis Museum today.

Oddly neither WW2 nor the Greek Civil War caused any significant damage either. The main damage that has taken place is post-WW2 due to the rise of car-driven air pollution, especially acid rain. To protect them, the remaining 5 caryatids were moved indoors in 1979 (replaced by replicas), and the last 20-meter segment of frieze remaining on the Parthenon was moved indoors in 1993. These would probably have been in better condition if they had been removed earlier.

They might have prevented the Greek Revolution. I think what actually happened is more important, which is that Elgin received a controversial OK to remove the marble from the Ottoman Turks who have a certain questionable history with the Greek people.

But however you want to spin it I guess.

The Ottoman's approved removal of artifacts from their Anatolia, too. (Eg for Schliemann in Troy.) They didn't just want to spite the Greek.

I wonder why my comment is getting downvoted though. :/

Don't be surprised if your comment about down-voting also gets down-voted. It's against the HN site guidelines.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

>"Please resist commenting about being downvoted. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading."

As for the the cause of the down-votes, it's most likely the snarky part, "Really, British Museum?!" It was unnecessary to make your case.

On the bright side, the links were interesting and appreciated. Thanks.

Your comment about downvoting comments about comments about downvoting, has been downvoted.

In the risk of getting downvoted again, I must say this fierce rally to blindly remove any "non-neutral" way of expression from the web (and the whole world) is plain stupid.

Parthenon is a construction site right now. Also air pollution in Athens is not so good for marble. Remove the cranes, cut heating oil tax, and we will talk about it ;-)

Fwiw the remaining sculptures in Greece aren't left outdoors at the actual Parthenon site either, in order to protect them from damage (though they are nearby). The Acropolis Museum [1] stores 5 of the 6 Erechtheion caryatids (the 6th is in London), as well as the portions of the Parthenon frieze that weren't removed by Lord Elgin. On the acropolis itself, the Erechtheion has replica caryatids, while the Parthenon is "bare" with no frieze or pediment.

The museum is arranged with the intent to display the complete set of pieces, with blank space deliberately left for the missing items, so in terms of technical housing I don't think there's a problem (this was part of the political motivation for building the new museum, to have a credible facility for the sculptures to be returned to). The caryatids are currently arranged as a set of six, but with one spot empty, and the frieze is laid out as a full-sized display of the entire frieze, with the pieces that the museum possesses inserted into their correct place, and plaster casts used as placeholders for the missing parts.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acropolis_Museum

You sir lack to see beyond the obvious. Please refrain from talking in an insulting and ignorant way about the most important symbol of Greek cultural heritage.

The damage was done in the 1930s.

And while on the matter, I've yet to understand why the Parthenon marbles are still not returned where they belong: in Parthenon.

Could someone help me understand why this matters? Why worry about events centuries past when there's so much to worry about in the future?

Events centuries past is what we call history :) When a nation has outlived the centuries creating a vast cultural background, people tend to care about its importance. [1], [2], [3]

To answer your question straight, the reason the return of the Parthenon marbles matters, is morality. [4]

One cannot appreciate the significance of such creations to the fullest when they are taken out of context.

[1] http://www.parthenonuk.com/ [2] http://www.parthenoninternational.org/ [3] http://www.marblesreunited.org.uk/ [4] http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/12/23/the-british-...

So, what is the reasoning behind that moral claim? I'm not busy chasing down someone who stole my great great great grandparents' precious statues; why worry about these artifacts that are well cared for in a museum?

It's not about chasing down someone that did something some X years ago.

It's about making sure that our civilization's treasures are protected and not ruined.

Okay, now that is something I can get behind. If it's a unifying thing that brings humanity together, then I'm all for it. When it seems like petty, divisive nationalism and (no pun intended) digging up old dirt, that's when I become skeptical.

I hate it when sites like this don't date articles. It is a trend that I think is unhelpful.

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