Pliny the Elder on Dolphins (77 CE) | Hacker News Reader

Pliny the Elder on Dolphins (77 CE)

laphamsquarterly.org

51 pointsdiodorus23 comments

I like how Pliny starts out with valid emotional perceptions of dolphins, transitions to a few believable factoids about them, and by the end of the article is basically just spreading myths and rumors.

Goes to show that nothing under the sun is new, not even Buzzfeed.

Pliny was trying to be comprehensive by communicating all that was believed about a subject, whether verified or not.

In fact, given the limitations on travel and communications at the time, it was rarely practical to confirm the stories communicated by people (sailors, for example) who had reported phenomena. Even things which are correct in his account were as difficult to verify as the untrue ones.

In the age of instantaneous communication, Buzzfeed authors can verify most things relatively simply, they just choose not to.

Like this one:

> "For this reason it is that they all recognize in a most surprising manner the name of Simo and prefer to be called by that rather than by any other"

Although, to be honest, I have an urge to go to a zoo and call a dolphin Simo now.

Wouldn't it be amazing if you verified that Pliny The Elder had discovered the dolphins favourite nickname ..

His reports are falsifiable. That's the essence of Popperian scientific claims.

Lapham's Quarterly, incidentally, is fantastic. Each issue is devoted to some theme (War, Religion, Intoxication, Money, The Sea), and will contain excerpts from all kinds of philosophical, literary, and historical primary documents (as well as art and photographs).

Came here to make the same recommendation. I've fallen off in my reading but I'm gonna catch up in the fall.

That's just a fantastic read. Pliny and Catullus both seem to reach across two millenia and convey a sense of, well, you could imagine reading them in a magazine somewhere on a beach in the Med, and thinking they were some modern day hack writers. Writing for others is something common across the ages.

Cheers

I wonder if people would pay for a magazine that contains ancient writings, but altered in style to appear like they were written today; the original Greek/Latin texts could be referenced if necessary to maintain the original meaning of the text.

With a catchy appearance and some artistic license, this might be an avenue to get people to read ancient texts. Now, there need be no lying, the magazine could plainly state that what is presented was written thousands of years ago.

I personally would like to get a magazine in the mail that contains excerpts of Plato, Socrates, and Marcus Aurelius, etc. For good measure, throw in some modern commentary as the op ed section.

I'll take a years subscription :-)

It was interesting to hear how they knew dolphins to live about 30 years...which is pretty accurate (it's usually 20 years, but some have been known to live up to 48 years).

> "were it not for the fact that his mouth is situated much below his muzzle, almost, indeed, in the middle of the belly, not a fish would be able to escape his pursuit."

Does this make any sense?

Not really. And it's not a translation error. Here's the original:

"Velocissimum omnium animalium, non solum marinorum, est delphinus, ocior volucre, acrior telo, ac nisi multum infra rostrum os illi foret medio paene in ventre, nullus piscium celeritatem eius evaderet."

Looking at pictures of dolphins, I guess he's referring to the fact that they have a very long beak ("rostrum") and therefore the mouth cavity ("os") is tucked in a lot more than other fish-like creatures. So much, indeed, that it might look like its mouth orifice is almost close to its belly.

He could have explained that a bit better, I guess, but something might be lost in the different nuances of meanings we give to "muzzle" and "mouth". Let's cut him some slack, though. The guy was able to identify a singular dolphin thanks to the cuts made (by sailors, I guess) on its dorsal fin. That's a technique researchers are basically still using today in the photo-identification of sea mammals.

Many Pliny was conflating dolphins and sharks?

E.g., "his mouth is situated much below his muzzle, almost, indeed, in the middle of the belly" could be reasonably applied to a picture like this one: http://www.sharkwallpapers.net/bulkupload/wallpapers/Great%2...

Maybe there are other animals mixed in there too. This seemed odd to me (although I'm far from a marine biologist): "...would present his back for him to mount, taking care to conceal the spiny projection of his fins in their sheath..."

I was half expecting advertisements on this page to say "XVI minvtes a day to a Roman Centvrion body!" or "Praetor's hate this one weird trick!".

You won't believe who stabbed Julius Caesar!

"XII Realistic Paintings of Marble Statues. My Jaw Dropped at Number IX."

"A Wolf Suckles Romulus and Remus. What Happens Next Will Blow Your Mind"

Until I got to the 77 CE part in the title, I had hoped to see some study about the effect Pliny the Elder (the beer) had on Dolphins...

I had to re-read the title a few times for it to make sense.

It's funny that the beer is the first thing many of us think of when hearing 'Pliny the Elder' these days.

I would hate to be immortalized by what I at least consider to be a pretty mediocre beer. I do not get they hype at all, and I've had it bottle and tap numerous times.

It was the first west coast IPAs to have in my opinion a perfectly balanced profile.

Now there's hundreds of other choices and copycats out there. I personally like more aggressively hopped and flavored double/triple IPAs but Pliny was brilliant.

Fwiw: He's attributed with documenting hops for the first time in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_History_%28Pliny%29

I didn't even see the 77 CE part at first. I clicked on the title, read a bit into it, and was very confused for a minute.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com