Hacker News Reader

1. I think you are being underpaid if you are going to live in SF and get paid 105K for a company that is both well funded, and very well known. Unless your equity is very very significant.

2. Companies don't disappear in two years; if they do, you don't want to join that company. There is no hurry for you to join the company now. In fact, you could intern every year and continue to build relationships in the valley and come back.

3. Degrees aren't that important for top companies.

4. You need to talk to the immigration lawyer. I don't think you can apply for an H1B without at least a Bachelors degree. The TN visa does not let you apply for a Green Card directly.

$105k is a livable wage in San Francisco, but expect about half of that paycheck to disappear into rent and about a quarter or a third going towards food and whatnot. On the other hand, my salary at this point isn't my main source of income, my stock grants are.

As for the immigration, I can confirm that you need at least a bachelors degree. I went through the H1-B (and GC) process and you can pretty much forget about it if you can't show at least equivalency. The main reason I finished mine and didn't do the exact thing you did (but 6 years ago) was for visa eligibility.

Be careful about saying TN, H1-B and GC in the same sentence. While an H1-B is a dual-intent visa (meaning you can pursue a GC), a TN is not. If you show intent to stay on a TN visa, that can hurt your chances in the future. This should be fine to talk about with your lawyer, but mum's the word when dealing with anyone in an official capacity.

1. I thought it was a decent entry-level salary. I don't have significant equity, but it's more than I thought.

2. If I continue to intern here (which is certainly an option - I have 2 more co-op terms left) I would be getting about $20k salary less, plus no equity

3. Thank you.

4. Meeting with the immigration lawyer is scheduled for tomorrow

Congratulations on the offer. Obviously they want you.

On one hand, there's a lot to recommend putting off the start of your career. On the other, if you're already awesome as a rising junior, you'll probably not be any less awesome as a graduate and have opportunities at that point. For me, the kicker is that you cannot get into the program you want at your university, and studying something that you don't love borders on tragedy [in the large, not on a class by class basis].

However, unless the employer is paying for the immigration attorney, I'd be skeptical of the prospects just based on my lay person's reading of the TN Visa requirements [1] and the description of the plan of attack as a loophole and the next step as an H1 visa.

Good luck.

[1]: http://www.nafsa.org/_/file/_/amresource/8cfr2146.htm

You'll never be in college at college age again. Meanwhile, you'll have your whole life to work in the Valley. Unless this job is really something amazing, stay in school.

Of course if you find yourself violently recoiling at that argument, that'll tell you something too.

That's definitely a valid reason - I'm having a blast in school, so I guess I'm just naively eager to begin working (since this past co-op term in SF has been one of the greatest times of my life). I guess SF won't be going anywhere, and it'll be just as good in the future.

I had so much fun at university (also in Canada like OP) and am glad I did a full 4 years and did not end it early.

If you're banking being able to get back into UW in a few years if you change your mind, you should also talk to someone at the school about that. As well, banking on a loophole to get a work visa (the TN restrictions are pretty specific about needing a degree in the field) seems like a pretty risky idea.

I have a strong feeling I know what company you're talking about as well (and no, I don't believe it's Github as someone else here does), I have to say that even if the company is full of brilliant people, you should also consider the relative risks in the field that they operate in. Bitcoin can be a risky business, even for the golden child.

My overall recommendation would be to stick with your degree. In a year and a half you wont have to worry about whether or not you can return to an undergrad if you wish, nor worry that a visa loophole will come back to bite you in the ass. If something happens and you need to find a new job, you wont have to worry about having to find one that will be willing to risk dealing with visa loopholes. Not to mention that you sound like you still have 2 coop terms left. Even here you could very likely return to this specific company for those terms if you wish, or (my recommendation) take advantage of the terms to explore different options.

I'm scheduling a call with my academic advisor sometime this week. I'm in good standing at school, and I take part in a bunch of extracurriculars, so even if I have to re-apply I don't think it would be difficult to get accepted again.

Agreed about the visa though - I have a call scheduled with an immigration lawyer tomorrow, so I'll determine how difficult it is (if it's even possible) to get an H1 or GC.

Thank you for your other points - seriously, much appreciated.

If you're even close to going forward with this, definitely lawyer up. Especially considering you're talking about a "loophole". Also talk with an accountant who has helped people in this situation, as that can cause some big surprises when it comes to what you owe at tax time.

Consider where you're leaving behind: KW is a rad area; I've been here in the startup world for just over 3 years (born and raised not too far away). A decent starting offer here is $60-80k, potentially more if you're at a 'name brand' company (I started at $65k for reference, with $50k the number I had in mind to stay local after wrapping up my CS degree). The cost of living here is way less than SF, so there's lots left over for actually spending on living.

If you really want to be in a city, go an hour east to Toronto and make your mark there.

I know the valley is a mystical, magical place, but if you're putting salary/equity high up on your list of "Pros", consider that you could do just as well, or better, in the area (when looking at purchasing power, cost of living, etc).

Get your degree.

Seriously, the lack of a CS degree will screw you over. Maybe not with this job, but you don't expect to work at this place for your whole career, right?

Pretty much this.

You'll see "or equivalent experience" but you'd be surprised at how many web startups using bootstrap will test you for data structures + algorithms chops.

As an example: I'm talking about hopping on skype for front-end jobs in angular, and they have some guy snickering at me not being able to solve a pathfinding equation.

If you are certain that you can go back to uni anytime and finish your degree then I don't really see why you shouldn't go for the job. Degrees matter if you don't have a lot of experience (something like less than 5 years) in the industry you are trying to work for. degrees might look like they don't matter much at the moment (because software engineers are in high demand) - but that can change quickly.

Completely agreed. I would add that 105k seems high as a starting salary for a software engineer at a sustainable startup, so either you have unique capabilities, or the startup is super well-funded, or the startup is burning cash at an unsustainable rate. It might be interesting to discover what the story is (diplomatically!) before you commit.

I have about 1.5 years of experience currently. I don't think I'd be expecting to stay at this company for >3.5 years, though, so maybe a degree would be more important than I anticipate.

I would take the job, but find out exactly how long you can postpone your schooling and return in good standing.

What I learned in college wasn't really relevant to what I do as a professional. Will you miss out on the theoretical underpinnings without finishing your degree? Meh. I'd say yes if you were building hardware (where the physical properties of what you're building are well understood and define the project), but software is changing and evolving all the time. The only way to know how to do it right is to be a part of what's happening right now.

I don't personally know about what avenues are closed without a degree (e.x. large companies). I suspect tech has some of the lowest requirements for a pedigree if you've got a proven track record.

A word of caution: A friend went back to finish his degree some time after he dropped out, and found out he had just barely missed the deadline. All of his credits were now expired and he would have had to start over as a freshman. Just make sure that doesn't happen.

Having been in the same situation, I picked staying at UW, and I graduated this past June.

You can always come back and do another coop at the same employer. As someone in 3A or 3B, you are really close to the end of your studies (and the courses in 4th year, along with FYDP, are the best parts of the program). Others have addressed some of the financial points. Obviously talking to a lawyer is a good idea.

Send me an email (in my profile), if you want to talk more about this.

Stay in school. You're in 3.5 years already, just finish it out. If they really like you, they'll understand and the offer will remain open for when you finish.

If you don't have plans to pursue a career in the academia, then I think you should take the job. You can also discuss it with any university rep to find out until when you could possibly go back to where you stopped should you wish to finish your degree in the future.

I'm going to venture a guess and say this company is GitHub.

Not a bad gig, and honestly if I were you, I'd take it. A degree really isn't that important anyway (for the goals you have, which I assume is to become a great engineer and build top notch products)

I'd finish my degree before embarking a formal job. There are plenty fishes in the pond. Without a degree, it's a problem for your every job search afterwards.

Be careful ... I would be surprised if you can get an H1B or GC with no college degree.

Tell them you will work for them from Canada while you finish your degree.

I asked that, and they didn't seem very eager for remote work. Additionally, I'd be getting no equity if I did this.

Internship in SF led to a fulltime job offer – should I drop out and take it?