Applepay screws up London underground payments | Hacker News Reader

Applepay screws up London underground payments

thememo.com

You need to use the same card to touch in and touch out to avoid being overcharged. There's been a fairly well-executed advertising campaign around this. Disappointing from The Memo, a site I hadn't come across before. I clicked to read how Apple had screwed up the London underground payment, but instead found clickbait.

Hello.

As an Apple-watch wearing, iPhone user I find the system disappointing. I'm effectively using the same payment card/bank at the end of the transaction and yet being fined for issues like the reader in one station not accepting my Watch but happily accepting the same card that is attached to my Apple Pay account.

It's far from perfect, and not a great user experience.

This is a bad, flamebait article.

- TFL are very explicit that all transactions must take place on the same device. They make it clear that if your battery does run out, you will be charged.

- Its obvious that this would be required, since there is no way for TFL to magically match devices or payment methods.

In other words, I don't know what the hell you expect to happen.

>> - Its obvious that this would be required, since there is no way for TFL to magically match devices or payment methods.

You mean, other than issuing a ticket?

>>> In turn, and somewhat unsurprisingly, TfL appear to be excusing themselves from blame.

Well what did you expect? Due to the nature of Apple Pay, it is literally impossible for TFL to match the fares. They also warn against it. On their dedicated Apple Pay page. What more do you want?

There's nothing to apologise for.

For completeness: https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-meth...

---- QUOTE ----

Always use the same device

If you use Apple Pay on more than one device, for instance when the same payment card is linked to both an iPhone and an Apple Watch, make sure to choose one device and use the same one every time you travel, to:

Avoid incomplete journeys Benefit from daily and weekly capping Please be aware that you might receive payment notifications on all your devices, regardless of which one was used for touching in or out.

Watch out for card clash

If you keep a contactless payment or Oyster card in your phone case, you should remove it before using your iPhone to touch in and out. If you don't, you could pay for your travel with a card you did not intend to pay with.

I think the bigger problem is this:

1. Open Passbook on your iPhone - before boarding a bus or tram/as you approach a gateline.

2. Place your finger on Touch ID to authorise the upcoming payment.

3. Touch it on a yellow card reader within 1 minute

I can't see people doing that in a busy tube station when you can just wave your card at the reader instead.

Well if Apple Pay stored the PAN instead of creating a token it would work exactly as people expect. What they expect is that they are adding their bank card to their phone, not that they are creating a new card.

Of course the PAN isn't stored because unfortunately due to the lack of EMV ubiquity, the secrecy of the PAN is still considered important.

The point is, for a customer of a business who does nothing dishonestly, it is not acceptable that you pay more than necessary twice because of some obscure technical limitation that wouldn't happen if TFL just used paper tickets.

>>> Well if Apple Pay stored the PAN instead of creating a token it would work exactly as people expect.

Apple Pay does have a PAN. It stores a unique device ID not tied to a card which is sent for every request. So it does work as people expect. The problem is people using TWO DEVICES and are seen as two people.

>>> The point is, for a customer of a business who does nothing dishonestly, it is not acceptable that you pay more than necessary twice because of some obscure technical limitation that wouldn't happen if TFL just used paper tickets.

You can still use paper tickets...

Sounds like bad UX to me...

How so?

What? No. This is exactly how it's always worked and there have been few issues. You touch in and out with the same card. Now you have to use the same device. There is nothing to report here.

I put the same card in two different devices, and it acts like two different cards. You don't think that is unintuitive? Especially if you understood the old rule as "use the same card to swipe in and out."

The limitations are technical. The device uses a unique card number (so yours is not transmitted) and thus devices can't be easily linked. When using something like this you should know to ask how it works (there are staff everywhere) or check online. Doesn't really seem like Apple of Tfl fault. TfL made it pretty clear how this worked and Apple's tech has limitations due to security. I really don't understand why you wouldn't touch in/out with different devices anyway. Only scenario I can think of is iPhone and Apple Watch users and how many of them are there in London? Seems like a few people had this issue, media picked up on it, and blew it out of proportion.

    It is a shame to see what could have been a
    scheme of global importance bedraggled by such
    terrible user experience.   ^^^^^^^^^^
                                ^^^^^^^^^^

Should that be "bedevilled" ??

The sentiment is clear, but the word choice is typical of a non-native speaker finding something that probably sounds about right, and will probably get the message across.

Bizarre, but charming, in its own way.

Hi Colin!

I am in fact a native Brit.

I also did mean "bedraggled" (as in "disordered", "messy", or "dishevelled").

I always think that to be "bedraggled" is best described as when you walk in from the rain looking a bit like a wet rat.

Please do head to The Memo to read more bizarre and charming turns of phrase.

Best,

Kitty

Kitty, just curious – I think it's reasonable to say that your article sensationalises a fairly obvious, innocent limitation of Apple Pay.

I only speak for myself, but it felt quite dated - like a tabloid from the mid-Nineties. It made me instinctively leap to the defence of the entity you were attacking.

I think this style of reporting is probably better left offline.

Obviously, you're welcome to to ignore unsolicited advice from strangers - but I just think it could be helpful to reflect on that in future.

    "Verbing Weirds Language"

http://www.603copywriting.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/c...

http://www.603copywriting.co.uk/verbing-weirds-language/

My claim was not that the writer (in this case you) is (hence are) a non-native speaker, but that this is the sort of thing that non-native speakers do inadvertently. It can be done for effect, as I assume you've done, but for me it just totally detracts from the writing. "Bedraggled" is an adjective, used to describe something. Yes, when you walk in from the rain and look a little like a wet rat, you are bedraggled.

To me, the system might be bedraggled, but it has been bedevilled by problems, resulting in it being bedraggled.

Language is as language does, and I'm not a prescriptivist. However, your deliberate choice of words has, in this instance, resulted in a final feeling of "urgh" about the writing, and I thought perhaps you should be made aware of this.

Your choice is your choice, and I'm just trying to make clear some of the consequences of which you may otherwise be unaware. To me, it just feels like you got the wrong word.

It is a real word, though it's usually used as an adjective[1], and so sounds a bit strange when used as a verb ("to bedraggle")[2], as a native Brit myself, but I get the meaning ("to make bedraggled").

[1] http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/bedragg...

[2] I think, my grammar is a bit weak

it's not a verb... right?

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