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Comment by InclinedPlane | Hacker News Reader

Folks, I appreciate that you don't like melling's opinion here, I have problems with it too. But can we not create an echo chamber by downvoting it into oblivion? That's not what voting is for. Let him have his say, if you disagree, then post a response. The way to win an argument is not to bludgeon the opponent into silence.

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On HN, it's completely appropriate to use downvote for disagreement (this has came up over and over again, but I doubt it's gonna change). Generally, I tried not to downvote for just disagreement, but melling's comment is pretty much the text book sample of the middlebrow dismissal, or gratuitously negative that we try to avoid.

That's incorrect. Why don't you read this 10 times then reread what I said.

" We live in some exciting times. Every few months we have a new probe somewhere teaching us so much about our tiny corner of the universe."

It's simply not accurate.

I was not one of those who downvoted you. And on further reading of your comments, it looks like you are commenting on the political climate of our society (no one cares about space/ science etc.), rather than specific engineering ability of the probe/ the team involves.

It is a popular sentiment, and I can say that a lot of us would agree with it. But your original comment read very much like belittling the current Pluto mission, which is a different thing and very much not welcomed here. I mean, we even try not to complain too much for the 10000 JS frameworks being posted here, let alone another probe in space.

> very much not welcomed here

While I agree with your first paragraph, I have issues with sweeping statements as to which viewpoints are welcome here. While I, as stated, disagree with melling's opinion in this matter, he is more than welcome to have it and make it known. Just as those who don't agree, through downvote or response, are welcome to their view.

I felt like melling was pointing out something valuable---putting current achievements into perspective with a little history.

Middlebrow dismissal isn't even a real phrase.

It sure is. It even originated here on Hacker news.

http://www.byrnehobart.com/blog/why-are-middlebrow-dismissal...

Right, so its part of the circle jerk. Once again, not a real phrase.

> On HN, it's completely appropriate to use downvote for disagreement

No. It is not appropriate at all! You reply for disagreement. You do not downvote.

Downvotes are for useless messages, flamebait, off topic, things like that.

Downvote for disagreement leads to reddit and no one wants that.

The bigger issue is that people with negative reactions are more likely to downvote than those willing to upvote on touchy subjects. That creates an imbalance and everyone has to be careful not to upset the hypersensitive SJWs as a result. The same human tendency accounts for the imbalance in online reviews.

Out of curiosity, do you consider it acceptable to downvote a message for not contributing to the conversation, even if it is technically on topic? I try to follow official policies, but I confess that I often just think of voting as a general way to express my opinion of how a comment contributes to the quality of the discussion.

Check out what PG says about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171

I don't agree with him there, because unpopular opinions should still be expressible. The downvote allows you to suppress opinions that you don't agree with which I don't think fits with the spirit of discourse that a good community should have. If someone says something inflammatory, suppress it. If someone says something you don't agree with, disagree with it.

I agree.

Is it time we move on and form our own opinion about the use of the downvote as a community instead of always deferring by quoting pg, whilst whose values and contributions are obvious, has only posted 1 comment[1] (and no submissions[2]) since his last active day 475 days ago?[3]

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pg

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=pg

[2] I do not know however if he reads or still votes on HN.

It's not really interesting what he has to say there. He never returns to address any of the valid criticisms of his post.

That's one opinion and it's doesn't jibe with what the site creator has stated previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658683

  "IIRC we first had this conversation about a month after launch.
   Downvotes have always been used to express disagreement. Or more
   precisely, a negative score has: users seem not to downvote
   something they disagree with if it already has a sufficiently
   negative score."

He did also say this in a discussion about problematic downvotes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1057347

So his position did seem to be a bit more nuanced than "downvote what you like".

"I know it when I see it"

My personal rule is to not downvote grey comments unless it's offensive or extremely wrong. Sometime I even upvote a comment I don't like when it's too grey.

More troubling than downvoting Melling's first comment (which is gratuitously negative and poorly worded) is the pile-on down-voting (and lack of corrective upvoting) of their other comments to this thread, most of which are reasonable points nicely made.

I feel like I downvote more than other people (and I'm happy for mods to say where I rank in the downvote league) but I don't like the pile on that you sometimes see on HN.

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