Estimate the cost of a Web, iOS or Android app
estimatemyapp.com
estimatemyapp.com
I've found in many years of building apps for clients, the easy part is forecasting simple programming costs. The hard part is helping folks understand time spent keying in code is only a small part of shipping successful software--and one of the more predictable ones. So, the cynic in me reacts with: "great, another over-simplification that instills more of those unreal expectations that so often cause failure."
Minor points worth reiterating from others:
* The rates are off for areas other than yours (how about making rates/regions an option?). And, I'd make it much clearer that the viewer is likely looking at offshore outsourcing pricing as that is a very, shall we say, unique approach to new product development.
* "Man" hours is a small, visual irritant due to the problematic gender relations and inequities in our field at the moment.
I dislike thinking about stuff like this. It's a waste of time and a distraction from things that truly matter, e.g., Pluto! But, a bunch of jerks already set the stage and the tune and it behooves those of us wanting to profit on that stage to be aware.
If you have data or citations to back up the "most common and easiest to understand" please share, I'm always interested in seeing data. Here's what I have to offer, for what it's worth:
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=man-hour&year_...
The problem is that an ugly little debate exists outside of this thread. You don't actually get to drag in small pieces of pedantry like that in isolation.
So, on the topic of this debate:
There are serious real problems in the world and in the software industry with people who are jerks, and (in particular, topically) unwelcoming and offensive to women. This is a very bad thing. And there are people who wish to fix this by changing the language we use. That's a legitimate position to propose and advance.
It's also a legitimate position to object to. But there are those come into the discussion wielding the hammer of Moral Authority, and often they suggest that if you fail to join the crusade to change a word like "man-hours" then you're an ignorant bigot riding high on all your privilege (you can already find some posts on this thread suggesting ideas from this group). Really, it isn't strictly about treating women decently, it's about demanding your subscription to and endorsement of a particular worldview and series of political prescriptions... it's about securing power and finding ways to stifle your opponents and detractors.
A POX ON BOTH YOUR HOUSES.
You're being mentally lazy for no good reason.
Literally nobody commented on the actual content of the OP.
That's what I mean by defining the default. The default, in your point of view, is the word "man," so therefore anyone who objects to that must be "different" in some way: overly sensitive, manipulative, deficient, etc.
When in reality, "man" is the default because men made it the default. That doesn't mean that it has to remain the default.
I'm not suggesting that we go back and edit Neil Armstrong's words--they were of their time and are amazing. I'm suggesting that we're in a different time now, and starting now, it is within our power to choose the words we use.
The idea is to recognize the history and context of language, not assign all problems to one word. No single drop thinks it is responsible for the flood, etc.
Besides, women programmers are often quickly promoted, so yes there's only men left at the bottom level.
Full time employee hours.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22fte+hours%22&rlz=1CDGOY...
That's what the "equivalent" part means.
However, it's true that criticizing man hours is not understanding language or etymology.
We could go on with things like cowboy and cowgirl. Why do we call adults boys and girls? On the other hand, they are just terms. Just like husband really isn't interpreted as "house bound". Bound, tied to a house, i.e. not free.
But... people being people we see others getting in trouble when son misunderstand etymology and meaning like when people use synonyms for frugality and people find offense. There will doubtlessly be other words which fall into disfavor for looking or sounding too much like a scoundrel word.
I just wanted to point out that said debate would hinge on more than a narrowly semantic question about the meaning of "man".
Man hours will be changed to something much more gender non-specific once traffic calms a bit, good spot. We have many female developers and none pointed it out! :-)
How about an acronym, like "thips", totals hours in persons. Throw a poet a bone.
Could in theory be done by a really talented member of anothery species.
Not sure we'll reach the point of highly intelligent, tool making chimps and New Caledonian crows writing their own applications. "Murderable" (of crows) hours would lead to some humorous situations though.
[1] http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/photos/12-artsy-ani...
Still i think the parent comment is important. If what you selling is just UI design and coding hours then you are not selling a completed app. Working with the client to go from a napkin sketch or idea to a shipped product involves a lot more work. Perhaps you could update the footnote at the bottom of the page about hosting costs etc to also mention the costs of requirements gathering and shipping. Nearly all of my past clients assume these costs are marginal at most if they think of them at all. Some of the more naive ones have assumed that ongoing support and training was somehow magicly included for free.
Maybe for the audience I think you're targeting: a few big buttons with labels such as "Thailand", "USA", "Western Europe", "Russia", "San Franspesive" and so on?
In our defence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-hour
Second big issue is that there really isn't a good way in this calculator to estimate/account for proper testing and subsequently, time spent when a client changes their mind on a feature and wants to redesign/re-work.
Maxed out iOS app shows:
35 person-days UI/UX + 162 person-days dev = $88,650
$88,650 / (35 person-days + 162 person-days) / 8 hr/day = $56.25/hr per person average cost.
Assuming the labor estimate is correct, if anyone knows of iOS developers skilled enough to pull that off for 56.25/hr fully-loaded labor costs I'd like to meet them. (e.g. who is coordinating the work and working with the client on evolving specs/feedback)
I bet the offshore guys get a lot of work from all of the "I have an idea!" people though.
We are actually a 6 year old western company based in Bangkok. We have worked with many big name startups very successfully.
Which is a very different type of estimate from fixed bid :), and makes this much more achievable especially when you're based out of Thailand. This seems to me like get the client in the door, introductory pricing.
The website looks great, and hopefully they'll get a lot of new leads from it.
this is always a massive potential time sink and risk.
According to the BLS the average hourly wage (not including overhead) of ALL us software developers is 45.81/hr. I would expect iOS developers to command a premium. Typical overhead of office space, management, equipment, benefits etc could easily add 50-100%
Occupation: Software Developers and Programmers (SOC code 151130) Period: May 2014 Area name: National
Hourly mean wage: 45.81
SOC code: Standard Occupational Classification code -- see http://www.bls.gov/soc/home.htm
Data extracted on July 16, 2015
Which is amazing to be honest, making prices I really hard for me and a tool like this can be an amazing opportunity to find my value. Thanks
The default rates are $56 an hour. For Android/iOS developers, I know a dozen people making $100-200 an hour.
It's a great tool (and note you can actually adjust your price at the bottom), but I would consider all of the quotes around time & rate as the low end.
Extremely common among early (or occasional) SWE freelancers IME, myself included.
IME, you can get to a point where you tally everything up and it comes to $65K, and then you start thinking, well this would be a fun side gig, and I have some free time I otherwise waste, and I sure could buy something cool with even $25K (after tax), and some of my estimates might be a little on the fat side, and this is a buddy (or isn't well funded, or both), and coding is fun enough that I sometimes do it for free anyhow, so I'll bid $45K.
And you've not accounted for the inevitable yak shaves, scope creep items, etc, but you got the work for $30K less than you should/could have.
It also doesn't indicate the kind of application (which is probably a largely stand-alone application). You can't stop some clients from going on to these sites and looking up a cost and not understanding what goes into an estimate. What would be even worse, in my mind, is to have other developers use a tool like this to generate a cost and then fail because they grossly underestimate complexity.
I personally think their model is pretty shitty, because if you build an app as a checklist of features you'll end up with something users won't want to use, and if you polish all the rough edges and make sure everything integrates well together, you will spend a lot more time on integrations than on implementing the features. (My rule of thumb - across many projects - is that when a project is feature-complete, it is usually between 40-50% shippable. When it ships, it is about 50% "done", where "done" means that all the initial development tasks required to make it stable and useful to users are complete. When it's "done", it's consumed roughly 10% of the calendar time and 50% of the developer time that will ultimately be invested in the project.)
But you can at least judge the model they're using for yourself.
If you aren't communicating the probability of it either being less or more expensive, then you are setting a false expectation.
What it doesn't capture is testing beyond just design-code-unit-test such as multi-device testing, user testing, user acceptance testing, etc. and all of the change management that goes hand-in-hand with that.
Or, for that matter, correctly internationalizing the recipes and conversion of measurement units. (You don't want to have add 3.43272 cups of flour to 0.2347 gallons of water, when translating metric to imperial - you'll need logic to scale up/down quantities and round within a given tolerance - which is often narrow when you start baking pastries). Or there might be a service for this specific example that I'm not aware of, but the point is when you go beyond a very narrow scope, I believe this tool breaks down.
I think a lot of agencies/shops could benefit by creating a version of this that fits their pricing model based on previous projects -- Not as a hard estimate, but as a ballpark figure.
:D
http://www.kinvey.com/app-cost-estimator
I take that as a compliment. :)
Good point from others RE: other countries ... sorry for being so US-centric.
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Good idea though! :)
Except you won't have the search algorithm, machine learning algorithms, and Hadoop stuff. But at least you'll just have a nice polished UI, with integration with Facebook, Twitter and Google+!
In our defence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-hour
i.e. What is their definition of "polished"?
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35 Man Days UX/UI Design -> probably $35k to $70k
178 Man Days Development -> $178k to $356k
The total cost is: $208k to $416k
The calculator's estimate: $95,850
So the actual cost is going to be anywhere from 2x to 5x higher than what this projects.
Deleted comment
> the human individual as representing the species, without reference to sex; the human race; humankind [0]
i get your point about 'chaps', its a term only ever used to describe a group of men. with 'man hours' its more difficult because the intent is never to talk about gender, just how much time something takes, and there are not commonly understood alternative terms for this (although maybe we need to pioneer an alternative...).
i'm also curious why you are offput from working with a group that is exclusively men because of the use of this term though? you are assuming its some kind of 'old boys club'. i think this is sexism
the perception of sexism won't go away until these groups get some women in them... i would find it hard to believe that there was a sexist intent behind that statement. it sounds like he is trying to be welcoming in fact... and to encourage diversity by not excluding you from this opportunity for such a weak reason as your gender.
maybe i am missing something obvious...
Never underestimate social conditioning of outcomes.
[1] I wish I could remember or find a reference for this!
it solidifies my belief that most gender inequality today is perceived rather than real. (not that that makes it any less of a problem to solve)
I'm very sure that excluding women wasn't their intent.
I'd just be careful if you're considering using this to quote your jobs. If somebody working for me quoted these sorts of numbers, I'd fire them on the spot. I wouldn't even give them a second chance. It would clearly demonstrate you didn't know what you were talking about.
- Create and implement a high fidelity design.
- Include the project-specific requirements that every feature has... the auth system needs to work via ajax, connect with a legacy db, and include animated transitions. Private messaging needs responsive design and realtime updates. Etc. etc. etc.
- Deal with scope creep, clarifications of the specs, and hours of related discussions.
- Write automated tests.
- Do live QA.
- Fix inevitable bugs, browser and device inconsistencies, ux problems, etc. etc. etc.
- System administration and deployment.
- Load testing, caching, performance tuning.
If a client tried to tell me I should be able to do all this in a morning, I'd fire THEM on the spot.
My "morning", is literally plugging django-social-auth, a custom User Model, a private messaging Model and few views to make it all work.
I'll grant you that testing might eat up the afternoon, but these are all solved problems that ship in libraries, many of which include their own tests.
Perhaps the people downvoting need to change how they build stuff.
The people downvoting you live in reality...
And when you're behind, because you keep underestimating difficulty, and the client is tired of your excuses, one of us will swoop in and show them how a real developer works.