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I agree with your statement. I think the clamoring for entitlements and awareness is driven by veterans advocacy groups, not the veteran community as a whole. In my opinion, it's a reaction to the neglect and apathy that veterans of previous wars experienced, most recently the Vietnam War. (If you want to be depressed, read about the maltreatment of WW1 vets in the US.) The veterans groups fight for entitlements because they believe they are subject to revocation as soon as awareness drops.

Through the lens of being a veteran, I find most of it to be overblown, though in the case of the author I think it's perhaps somewhat justified. However, he should admit that his issues aren't systemic; they're personal. His issues are 99% due to psychological issues from his combat service, not a tech-industry imposed Jim Crow Era (the Driving Miss Daisy comment in the article).

I don't think I'd ever comment on a CIB on display, it seems about as appropriate as the proverbial ignorant question, "Did you kill anybody?"

A good half of my friends who returned from combat had significant difficulty fitting into normal American life, and experienced psychological and relationship issues. I wish veterans groups would focus their rhetoric on that specific problem. Pay for servicemembers has increased far beyond parity with civilian jobs for the vast majority of occupational specialties, the Post-9/11 GI Bill truly solves the post-service employment training issue, and the stigma of being a veteran is essentially nonexistent. The hard problem that needs to be focused on is the significant therapy and rehabilitation need for the minority of veterans who actually were in combat.

What gets me is that he's whining about his raw deal as a veteran (pysch issues aside, is nonexistent), but he fails to accept responsibility for his life choices of 1) graduating (for free) with what I presume is a creative writing degree and failing to take internships, 2) failing to live in an affordable city (what's wrong with living in Oakland or Union City and driving over the Bay Bridge?), and 3) lamenting his lack of money as he wastes it at the bar (presumably in SoMa, and expensive).

The reason for the above is not because he's intentionally avoiding reality, it's because veterans often self-segregate in veterans groups. He lives in the TL because that's where his veterans organization operates (originally for Vietnam War vets with a more dire situation than his). Hopefully now that his Vice article has gotten him some more exposure, he'll have more interaction with non-vets and gain some perspective.

> I think the clamoring for entitlements and awareness is driven by veterans advocacy groups, not the veteran community as a whole. In my opinion, it's a reaction to the neglect and apathy that veterans of previous wars experienced, most recently the Vietnam War.

I think this is true, but kind of missing the recent "veteran outrage" that has been going on in the community. For example, the stolen valor shaming is totally out of control. It's not illegal to parade around in uniform and claim you were a badass - but there are tons of vets out there making name and shame videos and then plastering them around of people that do, claiming that they will call the cops or that the person will go to jail etc...

Same with the recent "furor" over some people wading into the reflecting pool at the WWII memorial, or some kids playing on the Vietnam memorial.

In my opinion it's taking it too far and burning up all the good feedback and positive relations we have had over the past decade.

That is all under the backdrop of probably the most supportive civilian population in recent history. I can't tell you how often I was thanked for my service or stopped and given thumbs up or free stuff when I was in uniform.

I have to agree that Stolen Valor nonsense got out of hand (although i have say pretending to be a vet is disgusting) However, even though i have rather ambivalent opinion on military (especially the modern one), mistreatment of monuments regarding human sacrifice is disgraceful. I am a hardcore atheist but I'd think to me it's as bad as having kids play on an altar to religious people. Just don't do it. Show some token respect, we all would be better off. (I do not refer to the person above, just to whoever does aforementioned stuff!)

I think there is a difference between mistreating a monument and just not having self-awareness.

The way I look at it, if there are kids laughing and playing on a monument, that is a better representation of freedom and security than any amount of pillars or stone could ever represent.

I think one of the unfortunate things is that most people don't understand what the military experience is, and how it might help their companies. Veterans should do a better job selling it to help bring awareness too.

Veterans often deserve some fault as well - many don't make good decisions with their life due to some desire, and end up regretting their choices. I've seen many not make every effort to set themselves up for long term success, and often shoot for & encourage short term success, even if it ends up in a long term dead end. Perhaps they are not much different than a lot of the US population in that regard, but wishing for things to be different based on past experience is not going to do anyone any good.

>Veterans should do a better job selling it to help bring awareness too.

The problem is, there is no good way to do this. A lot of large companies and banks have veteran specific programs to get us in the door, which are great. Aside from those however it's an education game, and educating your potential employer who has no idea that you just got done running a program larger than their organization won't really help.

I think a lot of combat veterans don't understand that going into the private sector after 5 or more years in the military is akin to a software developer trying to get a job on an oil-field. Outside of specific military jobs that translate perfectly - like IT and for people with more time in service to management - it's a wholesale change. From a skills perspective you are at a disadvantage from someone who has been in the industry for those 5 years. It's hard to sell the veteran specific "soft skills" that are hard to impossible to quantify.

A big struggle for me was trying to break into the investor side of the tech world coming straight out of the military. So even though I had been working for years on my startup, had a co-founder, customers and an MVP - I had absolutely no network to raise seed money. I got lucky and hooked up with an Angel group that specifically targets guys like me (Hivers & Strivers Angel fund) and it ended up working out, but even though we passed that first hurdle, since I don't have that deeper network it's still an uphill battle because I am unproven in the tech startup world and my rolodex is very limited.

Just curious. Is the division between civilians and officers different from the division between civilians and enlisted?

My guess is that it's easier for HN to relate to the vets who have college degrees. And the problems faced by enlisted men are completely alien.

A civilian is someone who is not a uniformed member of the Armed services. There are civilians who work for the branches of the military (Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force) but they do not (typically) wear the military uniform, do not (typically) fall under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, get paid on a different scale and have different legal standing.

Commissioned officers and Enlisted members are two sides of the same coin. Commissioned officers are formally appointed by the president and have certain constitutional provisions applied to them. Junior enlisted members and non-commissioned officers do not have the same constitutional charter. In practice these differences range from marginal to extreme in terms of how the groups interact with each other and the general public.

Interestingly enough, the amount of enlisted and non-commissioned officers with college degrees has never been higher, so it's not really that much of a differentiation anymore. It is however increasingly common with commissioned officers that they will have pursued a masters degree within 6-7 years of commissioning.

Really? I always assumed people needed college degrees to become offers. And enlisted men were ones without.

Also to clarify, I don't mean civilians on a military base. My question is "Is it hard for people like me to relate to enlisted men than the ROTC officers, etc?"

Sorry I should clarify: Officers do need a college degree prior to commissioning.

To your question: I don't think so, but it largely depends on the person.

Yikes. Way to betray your brothers who risk their lives for our freedoms. For me, I can only say I'd never have the balls to sign up for the army... These guys do something we can't pay for directly and maintain our standard of living, so we must find other ways to reward them. Certainly when one of them is lonely, I'd hate to think anyone .. especially a fellow veteran, would call it 'whining'.

I feel the same way about teachers, farmers, policemen as well.

To be clear, having issues with fundamental care of our veterans is not what is in discussion. We should absolutely be outraged at poor care of our defenders military, firefighters or otherwise.

What I object to is the "APPRECIATE ME FOR MY SERVICE" attitude that is running rampant in the vet community.

Well said, Andrew.

This article propagates the 'veterans as victims' narrative.

And no, I don't want to talk to you either, Uber driver.