Tron-Club, a monthly circuit-building kit | Hacker News Reader

Tron-Club, a monthly circuit-building kit

tronclub.com

140 pointstronclub97 comments

I really really really hate the separate shipping cost. We can't get it without shipping. Don't quote prices that are impossible to achieve.

The pricing, BTW, is $20 a month or $18.33 a month if you pay a year in advance.

> We can't get it without shipping. Don't quote prices that are impossible to achieve.

This, exactly.

When I first glanced and thought "Oh, $150 a year? That's not too bad." Then I looked closer and saw the shipping cost was extra.

It's not that the extra shipping cost was necessarily prohibitive, it's just that there's some sort of psychological effect (sticker shock, I guess?) where you think you know what the price of something is, and are disappointed to learn that's not really the price at all.

"... it's just that there's some sort of psychological effect ..." For me it feels like a bait-n-switch.

This assumes that the shipping rates will be the same anywhere that they serve. That's usually an incorrect assumption. This format allows for variations in the shipping while keeping the same unit price.

Edit: Although, I am confused that they send me through the Paypal service before collecting my shipping address. Are they actually quoting me a price based on IP geolocation? That's kind of a dumb assumption; I send half of my traffic through a private VPN. I could probably save quite a bit of money by switching to U.S. East coast server for the payment processing.

You're not wrong, but it just seems like bad design. Why do they still show shipping rates at all, if the separate price/shipping prices are meant to deal with the uncertainty of shipping fees?

I'm not sure if they're altering the page based on geo-ip or not, but what I'm seeing on their page is "$14/mo (plus low 5.99 shipping) and $150/yr (plus 69.99 shipping)."

Why not just say $20/mo or $220/yr (additional shipping fees may be required for non North American customers)? It seems like that would be less likely to cause the sort of complaint had by gergles.

> Why not just say $20/mo or $220/yr

Geolocation is not a reliable way to detect a shipping address (you could be using a VPN for instance). If you don't separate the shipping cost then it would be harder to tell the client why the final price is different to the initial quote.

The only killer value here is the material and there's little of that on display at the moment. What appears to be there is stuff you can find for nothing on the web with a little googling ( http://allaboutcircuits.com/ http://electronicsclub.info/ for example)

The parts are worth little to nothing; less than $30. You can get bagged kits from bitsbox.co.uk with everything you need for $24.

I can't see the value proposition and it seems to be an attempt at monetizing something.

I get that you've got to eat, but you'll only manage that if you keep that material flowing.

What you get is basic knowledge about electronics using concrete circuits, and the parts to experiment yourself.

I don't think the main value proposition are the parts: if you know where to look, parts are very cheap. It's more about learning in an easy way.

You might say there are already tons of resources on the Net. The problem is that those resources don't come with parts, which might be problematic to choose when you are a beginner, and you might not know where to order.

I'll second this. In theory, I can get any part I need from DigiKey or similar, in practice, navigating their site and finding just the right part is very challenging. Sparkfun and Adafruit are better in this regard, but that comes with a higher cost and spotty availability.

Exactly, the value is in the fact that it's bundled: instructions and everything you need to make the circuit, exactly the same components used in the manual.

As for getting assorted components to complement these bundles or other projects: SparkFun makes it easy for the US.

But being in the EU (and caring about ROHS and CE) I use these to fill the gap:

http://www.exp-tech.de/

https://www.tinkersoup.de/en/

http://www.watterott.com/

Given the price of the parts I'd strongly consider offering the first month free, or at most for the cost of shipping. I just don't see too many people parting with $20 based on a landing page + no social proof.

I could be wrong though...

I think it would be a very good idea for them to get some prominent bloggers to do a review of the first kit.

Dave Jones.

Yep!

I agree - I kept looking around the page for more details. The landing page seems too basic to sell me on a subscription.

Same here.

Especially as it seems to be aimed at novices like myself I'd like to see something a bit more tangible that I'm signing up for.

Almost pulled the trigger and then decided it was simply too vague a proposition to impulse buy a monthly returning cost for.

> Given the price of the parts I'd strongly consider offering the first month free, or at most for the cost of shipping.

They are offering 60 days money back guarantee, so isn't that pretty much equivalent to first month free?

I spend a fair amount of time offering electronics/firmware assistance online on various forums. You'd be amazed at how many people have problems just doing this. Seeing a circuit, collecting the parts from a variety of sources, and putting it together is trivial for those of us who have been doing it since we were teenagers. For those completely new to electronics, there are many little hurdles among the way that can eventually cause them to just give up.

Yes, these guys are monetizing a simple concept, but they are providing value. Value is worth paying for.

There are a number of companies that shift a good selection of parts in kit form to start with. This is the one I tend to recommend:

http://www.bitsbox.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cP...

That plus side cutters, pliers and a multimeter.

By that rationale you could wonder why anyone eats at a restaurant when the components are so much cheaper if you buy them yourself. Not a perfect analogy but the value add is they are packaging up what you need, giving you instructions, etc. People are lazy/busy/overwhelmed with coice and are thus willing to pay for someone to package things together for them to reduce the friction of a new experience.

It’s awesome to see so many teams working on making it easier for people to get into the hardware maker space!

To that end…. since everyone is showcasing their projects, I’d like to introduce everyone to http://thimble.io/

Our aim is to make it much easier to learn and expand your skills in a more structured format. We’re working on a learning app and monthly hardware subscription kit. You get all the parts you need to assemble an entire project - the first month will be a wifi-enabled robot. We’ll be running weekly webinars every month in order to field questions aside from the community forum and slack group.

We’re also working on incorporating a competition element for those interested in pushing their skills. Every month a panel of judges from the industry will choose the top submissions - customized beyond the basic kit (naturally cool and useful prizes and accolades will ensue - cool hardware stuff + software subscriptions).

SHIPPING: We’re working with fulfillment houses to hopefully be able to ship internationally from the get go. Volume will dictate how much we can drop the overall price of the kit by. I can say that it’s a priority for us to do so and drop the price through better vendor partnerships and preferential rates from fulfilment houses to make Thimble more accessible.

Pricing: $70-80 for our first robot kit. We're looking for feedback on the first kit and from there we’re going to adjust price/kit complexity.

Would love to know what you guys think.

Thanks, Michael

>It’s awesome to see so many teams working on making it easier for people to get into the hardware maker space!

Along the same lines, albeit I am not at all associated with this group (just a happy customer), there is also http://www.hackerspaceshop.com/electronics.html

I mean, there are a lot of ways one can fulfill the desire to get into more electronics/DIY .. don't forget the Synthesizer guys! (https://www.google.at/search?q=synth-diy&tbm=isch)

This is a very cool idea. We have a project along a similar vein at HackerBoxes. Tron looks like great basic circuit education/exposure, while we're doing things more on a project level. These could even be complimentary, so some may want to subscribe to both.

Either way, please keep in touch with us over here at HackerBoxes. In order to gauge what users find more or less interesting, we definitely want to hear feedback on our boxes from all subscribers, certainly the HackerNews crowd!

Hack the Planet, Joseph Long, Founder http://www.hackerboxes.com/

Here's some feedback: International shipping!

Once HackerBoxes.com goes to standard subscriptions (post-Kickstarter) there will be international shipping options. It is a high priority so your point is very well taken!

Here's some more feedback: Get some projects from the other Kickstarter projects - e.g. I'd love to see an Oscilloscope Watch in your curriculum. :)

I submit that while what you and I now see thimble.io are doing is very worthwhile (I found it fun back in the '70s), Tron-Club is doing a fundamentally different and also worthwhile thing, teaching basic electronics, or as they say "Over 252 Circuits per year".

Although I sincerely hope they're going to do plenty of analog as well as the two digital ones in progression they showed on their page; that would be key to my signing up.

I'm definitely interested in following this, do you have a newsletter or notification I can subscribe to when the Kickstarter completes?

If you message your email to us (through the Kickstarter page or otherwise), we would be happy to keep you posted. Thanks!

awesome, thanks!

Cool concept! A couple things: 1) Using 'Tron' could be a bit problematic if Disney's lawyers get bored. 2) You might want to drop the annual price a bit, and maybe work on your shipping costs.

Dictionary to the rescue! All they need to do is to include a piezo pressure sensor in the fist kit.

tron (trɒn) n: a public weighing machine

[C15: from Old French trone, from Latin trutina, from Greek trutanē balance, set of scales]

Amazon and google are also words to find in a dictionary but that doesn't get in the way of enforcing their trademark

Google is in the dictionary? Since when? Maybe you are thinking of 'googol'?

Yup, it's in the Oxford English Dictionary. I don't know when, but I'm guessing after September 4, 1998.

The online version says for me "This is a new entry (OED Third Edition, March 2006)" for capitalised "Google", meaning "To use the Google search engine to find information on the Internet."

It also has a lower-case "google", in a cricket-related meaning, from 1933; so it has that in common with Amazon, whose meaning in the OED is still unrelated to the company.

Of the ball: to have a ‘googly’ break and swerve. Of the bowler: to bowl a googly or googlies; also (trans.), to give a googly break to (a ball).

Disney most likely took the name from the TRON command which is/was a debugging feature in BASIC [0]. The site itself also (whether conciously or not) make no mention of the movie. "Tron" could also be an shortening of "Electron" but without the hassle of an apostrophy, e.g. 'tron-club. I could be talking bollocks though :)

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_command

None of that matters if Disney's lawyers get bored :).

I hear Disney's lawyers are going after the descendants of Wilhelm and Jacob Grimm because of the Grimm's use of Snow White and other Disney properties.

Our name comes from the word Mechatronics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechatronics

My favourite machine name is TIMTronic - ticket issuing machine electronic. It was a bus ticket machine made and sold by Almex control systems. It had 7 segment LED displays and mechanical keys and mechanical (not thermal) printer, and was huge. Bus drivers would push coins into them to short out the machine, thus allowing them to use hand-written emergency tickets which had much weaker auditing.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/calummelrose/8514115994

That Flickr account has some nice photos.

I like the idea, but I'm not real sure about the price and the shipping cost. It says you get a breadboard every month and I assume this is a decent part of the weight. I already have a couple breadboards and how many breadboards does one really need?

Maybe just have a breadboard as an add-on or a separate item? I'd be fine never getting a breadboard in any of the kits.

Your feedback has been noted.

I'd be for getting a breadboard my first time and then have it be an option to receive it after that. Soylent has a similar option with their pitcher and measuring scoop.

There is a new Kickstarter project called Hacker Boxes which does this on steroids: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/207210015/hackerboxes-t...

Only ships to United States. So disappointing steroids :)

We ship worldwide :)

Noticed that. Very interested. Just need a bit more convincing as I commented elsewhere.

At the moment I'm in the "bookmarked will be a late adopter if it takes of" camp.

So good luck, hope that I'll be able to throw money at you at a later point! :)

Ok, full disclosure. I'm such a whimp.

40 years old and still buckle under the slightest peer pressure.

Showed it to a friend of mine and he was instantly enthousiastic and said "let's both do it and have a monthly nerd session!"

So you go two subscriptions from Amsterdam the Netherlands half an hour ago :)

Thank you for the mention. Please keep in touch. We want to hear feedback on our boxes from all subscribers, but definitely the HackerNews crowd!

-Joe, Founder http://www.hackerboxes.com/

Is there a way to see international shipping prices or is it US only?

Seconded

I'm in the UK and I see the prices in Pounds, so it seems to be not US only.

I was so excited when I saw that £

The FAQ says they're Canadian and they ship overseas. But you are responsible for customs, import duties, and local taxes if any should apply.

To get to the FAQ and other information: Scroll all the way to the bottom and click on "Terms".

well as long as the actual raw value of the components is listed on the customs declaration, each packet is unlikely to hit the import duty threshold (of the UK. can't speak for other countries)

How about a circuit-only subscription for non-US people or those who already have parts (or easy access to some)?

This could make for a good school club/activity.

You want to pay for something that is FREE in every library? Dont you have hobby electronics magazines in your country? or electronic kits?

It's for a curated set of circuits with increasing difficulty that have a known (and ideally cognitively linked) purpose.

People sell this sort of thing all the time even though you can find it for free if you know what to look for - it's the curation you're paying for.

Your feedback has been noted.

This looks great! It's like a modern day Dick Smith Fun way into Electronics (for the Aussies out there)!

Dick Smith Funway was awesome! I suspect I may still have those books (I think it was a three-part series) around somewhere...

Yeah! I still have mine. Volume 1 was the plastic blue breadboards (well they were plastic when I started - I think the earlier models weren't), and volumes 2 and 3 were PCBs (so I bought the Dick Smith orange soldering iron).

You can purchase the official Arduino starter kit for less than what the yearly price costs, not to mention the shipping fees from Amazon.

As someone who works for a SaaS and pays for a Barkbox subscription, I do think the idea is good, but the pricing combined with the lack description on the page is probably going to be a huge road block.

> You can purchase the official Arduino starter kit for less than what the yearly price costs

I would expect Tron-Club to provide far more comprehensive set (in a year) than what the Arduino starter kit is. Of course I have no way of actually knowing that.

Hmmm could find pricing info and the subscribe button does not seem to work.

I had to turn off adblock for it to work.

Payment via PayPal or Bitcoin.

Regular: $14/mo plus 5.99 shipping

Prepaid: $150/yr plus 69.99 shipping (breaks down to 12.50/mo and 5.83 shipping)

Edit: if I'm reading this right, it's not a bad deal at all considering you seem to get a breadboard + all parts every month in addition to the circuit. So if you do it, you'll end up with whatever knowledge you accumulated from doing the 21ish circuits per month, plus a TON of parts.

uBlock was causing problems, had to disable it.

uBlock killed subscribe for me, too. Didn't occur to me until I saw others mention it.

Though I agree with others that the price is a bit high, I want to see where this goes. I hope a strong community can grow around it and folks come up with interesting ways to combine previous kits. It would be really fun if some of the monthly projects consisted of compositions of previous projects. That may break with the model of each kit containing everything necessary for each project so maybe it would work better as a monthly challenge on Reddit or something. Anyway, here goes nothing :)

Fantastic - I'll definitely be subscribing. I imagine that having a forum for users to discuss projects would be a good idea, have you considered adding one?

I'm having trouble with the order form, however - it doesn't seem to be loading at all, clicking 'Subscribe' does nothing for me.

I'd give you more diagnostic info but I'm occupied at the moment - perhaps later. In any event thanks for sharing and best of luck.

You may have to disable uBlock/AdBlock/Ghostery to see the PayPal/Bitcoin order buttons under the subscribe button.

Your feedback has been noted. In the meantime please use https://www.reddit.com/r/tronclub to discuss the circuits.

To the founders: why are you collecting payment before asking me where I live? Are you cool if I sign up through my American VPN and then choose a Canadian shipping address?

Edit: I see now that it's leveraging Paypal for shipping information too. Still, I wonder how the price responds if I start from a U.S. IP.

We use your paypal mailing address, if this is incorrect please email (from your paypal email) AddressChange@tronclub.com your new shipping details.

Feel free to pay in USD and have a Canadian shipping address.

Excellent, I love this idea, subscribed. This will be great to do with my young cousins.

I was going to sign up, but no way to pay without paypal or bitcoin. Don't have the latter, won't deal with the former. Too bad the only way to contact them is 'on their social networks'. Seriously?

Feel free to email us at hello@tronclub.com

I would hope that the kits do include more advanced/useful stuff than the LED blinkers they are showing on their page. Compare and contrast to something like old Heathkits.

Check out www.HackerBoxes.com :)

eeme.co and kipkaykits.com also comes to mind

This looks really interesting but I won't buy unless the poster engages with the commenters here to address some of the questions.

I like this idea. And it's the perfect present for anyone you know that are curious about getting into electronics.

I love all these hardware hacking options! I wish someone would do a project-based one for the raspberry pi, though.

We'll be doing that through the learning app. Not only are we going to put together project-specific course content that will teach soldering, coding and how to work with the components in a structured way but we'll be opening up the platform so that makers can create their own kits and courses. We're focused on the learning aspect - useful, structured course content so you don't have to spend hours online on multiple sources. With some semblance of progression built in so you can move onto more ambitious projects or learn a new skill in the field - think TeamTreehouse or CodeSchool but for Hardware.

Do you think this would be a good birthday present for 9 year old? Or is it too challenging for that age range?

You might want to start with Snap Circuits.

I had a "150-in-One" breadboarding kit from Radio Shack when I was 9 years old and greatly enjoyed it. This seems similar, but using the monthly subscription model.

Little Bits are very fun, very simple. littlebits.cc

I signed up.

The link to terms on the subscription confirmation page is broken. There's an extra slash at the end.

It has been fixed. Thank you.

Instantly signed up 😊

I think its safe to say we've reached peak monthly-subscription-startup...

No, no, not at all.

I'm 54 years old, played this sort of game in the early '70s in elementary school with kits from Radio Shack, but it didn't really take (science and later computers was my thing), and I'm seriously considering subscribing. I'm potentially interested in doing the projects, but definitely don't want to spend a lot of time on the net gathering the parts and info, although it would, as others note, be cheaper.

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