Don't Attend a Hackathon | Hacker News Reader

Don't Attend a Hackathon

caseysoftware.com

58 pointsprostoalex31 comments

Article should be re-titled, "Don't write code for free at a hackathon."

To be fair, the title was a (not-so-subtle) "twist" in that you thought it was going to tell you not to go to hackathons, but it flipped it by saying "Don't attend a hackathon... if you're just looking for devs to implement your ideas".

It was telling the "ideas people" to go away, not the devs to avoid them.

Relevant and hilarious: http://whartoniteseekscodemonkey.tumblr.com/

Isn't that what a hackathon is about? Maybe, "Don't work for free at a hackathon".

Writing code for one's own idea is play. Writing code for someone else's vision is work.

When I run into people like this, I always say the follwing:

"I also have a great idea, I'd like to start an electric car factory in india. I just need an engineer who plans the factory, designs the electric car blueprints, manages the building of the factory, organizes the machines, and implements the structure for mass producing cars. Shall we do a 50/50? You build the factory, I do the rest."

Yes, that was my point with this one: http://caseysoftware.com/blog/startup-risks-for-developers

At these early stages, the risk/effort split isn't even close to 50/50.

Exactly. Reminds me of this parody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkGMY63FF3Q

I'd say a lot (most) tech companies are similarly places where "idea people" sometimes known as "business" are having developers implement their ideas. And even though in this case the developers are paid, I'd say same advice applies - it's not a good place to work. Find a place where you are paid to implement your ideas, or ideas you really understand and believe in.

I thought the exact same thing when I read the article. Just because you get paid doesn't mean you should do the work.

It is a star in my book though, when someone has managed to convince other people to part with their money before they come asking for people to help with the building. Gives the idea a bit more merit.

I forgot to mention that in some cases developers aren't even paid, i.e. when your compensation is (mostly) equity.

The problems the author describes aren't limited to just hackathons. Developer-entrepreneurs are constantly bombarded with requests for free labor from idea people. Don't code for free!

(original author here)

I talked about that one a few years ago too: http://caseysoftware.com/blog/startup-risks-for-developers

Wow that's a great post! Puts into words the thought process I've gone through many times before.

Would be even better if your site had some TLS love! ;-)

Thanks for sharing!

Standard issue in the creative industries. There's always someone with the absolute bestest idea for a book/movie/band/franchise/app, and they just need someone to do the actual work.

If you're really lucky they'll offer to split any income with you 80:20.

If not - think of the exposure! (Etc.)

This is pure clickbait

In today's world, are there still devs out there coughing up free work to "idea people"? If you can code, bathe, and are willing to live in a major metro area you can get paid real money to work on real software for real business/startups.

Those seeking free work are inadvertently preying on those with imposter syndrome. Many devs refused free work in the pit of the tech recession (2002-2003). Expecting that to happen today is laughable.

This has nothing to do with Hackathon attendance.

This isn't limited to hackathons, and to be fair the title is fairly click-baity.

I remember seeing a page here on hn listing 1001 great ideas. So if you are out of ideas, then just pick one from there and adapt it to a problem you have identified.

There are an endless number of ideas you can come up with that combine some of your domain knowledge with a problem you can identify in your local community. I was just reading an article about pot holes in Oslo. How about an app that lets you quickly log a pot hole. Or use the accelerometer to identify pot holes and warn other users. Or let you plan a bike route to avoid pot holes.

Everyone is capable of coming up with ideas. Just because they come from a developer doesn't make them any better than coming from a non-developer. Then again lots of terrible ideas come from both devs and non-devs.

The upside for the developer is that they can evaluate the complexity of an idea much better than non-devs and can make a nice little demo to show others.

We have a really bad problem with potholes out here. That's a great example as I could see both bicyclists and motorcyclists possibly making use of that. It could straight up save their life on a motorcycle. I think a iPhone and Android compatible mobile app that lets you log one based on location data would be relatively straight-forward. Someone should take a stab at it.

I don't think this is very informed by actually going to hackathons.

A good team project needs a strong vision and someone that coordinates that vision among team members. Its hard to coordinate that vision AND directly contribute at the same time in a compressed time period (I've tried to do that too and its really hard)

There are a lot more people who would want that kind of role than people who would be good at it/able to attract a team for it. But that doesn't mean that that role isn't important for team projects.

Reminds me of this parody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkGMY63FF3Q

Although this article makes a good point, it doesn't offer any practical suggestions for how to avoid the issue entirely.

Original author here.

I did a followup on this post here: http://clarify.io/blog/howto-be-successful-at-a-hackathon/ and just linked it from this post.

This article pretty clearly summarises my thoughts when I see one of those "hiring engineer #1 at startup X" posts.

Ideas are a dime a dozen. It's execution that matters (at least when you are just starting your business) and to these companies hiring engineers and _actually building something_ seem to be somewhat of an afterthought.

If a non-coding participant in a hackathon has a great idea and a great pitch then I totally expect that engineers will join in the effort. That's the point.

I guess yeah, don't be a 'I just need a developer to build exactly what I say' dick about it, but I don't think I've met many of them.

Let me guess, you had to sign a legal document to attend this hackathon?

(original author here)

No, though I've seen those too: http://caseysoftware.com/blog/ip-agreements-at-hackathons

Nice writeup. If I.P. is even an issue, it should be advice given to them about copyright, NDA's, trade secrets, and patent protection. They should be better equipped to utilize them during and after the hackathon to protect their stuff. I could see maybe a shrink-wrap agreement like what's built into, say, Apache license that just CYA's the host against BS. I can see it because trolls are on the rise in general and might start pulling crap with hackathons. I can also see an explicit agreement by host giving up any claims on the I.P. as an assurance for participants.

Truth told, any startup producing something must absolutely control their intellectual property to achieve best results at deal time. I'd call out any group undermining that as irresponsible or predatory. I'd probably not go soft about it as you did, either. Not critiquing you rather than saying an I.P. transfer agreement at a hackathon is so obviously bad and scheming I'd call them out without hesitation. If they tried, it would be the shortest libel lawsuit ever lol.

Feels like there needs to be a workshop or teaching section that can funnel these folks and learn them some Ruby/Rails/Haskell/whatever.

>If you attend a hackathon with a preconceived notion of recruiting a team to build your Vision, on your terms, for your benefit, you’re doing it wrong. Instead, you should attend to learn more about the skills and understanding you need or that you need to hire for in your team.

alternatively (and perhaps controversially) if you have some cash and can plan a project out and write down proper specs you can hire someone online for $15/hr to do the work for you. They get paid and you walk away with some kind of project implemented.

I have to work for these kinds of "idea people" every day, and all the shifting constraints and scope problems that come with them

“I just need a developer to build it.”

"I'll do the thinking around here" - I've never seen those situations end well.

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