Yanis Varoufakis opens up about his five month battle to save Greece

Hear, hear.

While Greece have lost this battle, he has shone a light into the murky workings of European politics that I believe will be invaluable and inspiring to future reformers, not to mention the citizens of the EU member states.

Radical incendiaries? I wonder what epithets you'd employ to describe people who have voted against EU treaties (to be told to vote again until they get it right)?

"True and honest"? Are we reading the same article? He sounds like a bitter extremist who doesn't know how to control himself in order to reach a certain goal, but instead like either a petulant child or an autistic person (depending on the day of the week, it seems) can only repeat 'the Greeks voted for no extra cuts yet stay in the Euro so we should get it' (no shit? and I'd like a pony) and 'my economics paper says xyz, I want you to reply to each point I made'. Uh no buddy, that's not how the world works.

With my interested bystander hat on, I agree with you.

As someone who has a family interest in Greece being a pleasant place to live and work, it would have been nice if he had been even a tad effective along with it.

To be fair, the vast majority of the bailouts have gone to paying back debts. Those debts were held with corporate German and foreign banks.

And here is the kicker; Those debts are now held by the ECB, which, is not supposed to be a lender of last resort, but now has become one by default. The corporate banks are now safe and have extricated themselves from the risky position they found themselves in 5 years ago.

The ECB doesn't care either way. Schauble secretly welcomes a Grexit, because without external support Greece can't move to a new Drachma. The logistics are just impossible by themselves. Schauble wants the rest of the Eurozone to witness what will happen when you exit the Euro without support (it won't be pretty).

Hi there France btw. You still like you early retirement, large civil service employment, string unions and social state? Well, you're number one on their hit list.

> <?> doesn't portray the other side objectively

That's the hardest part of this whole issue, everyone say something different. Greeks are ..., Germans are ..., Banks are ...

As a non educated (in that matter), it's impossible to understand anything without the feeling you end up as a fanboy for some party.

> Many of the suggested improvements are objectively sound, e.g. property taxes, tax collection in general, normalized VAT, reducing government corruption and red-tape, removing various monopolies, etc.

Those have been proposed by Syriza itself, but that hardly matters because the disagreement is not actually about economic policy, at all.

The salient features of the Eurogroup deal are things like: "give us $50 billion of your airports, bridges, government land, tourist attractions, etc, but at today's Depression-era prices". Shock doctrine stuff.

And: "take far more severe austerity, for the chance to negotiate another bailout you need to pay us back for the previous bailout, without debt relief being on the table, despite your population rejecting this option in the very recent past, despite the IMF concluding the current debt load is clearly massively unsustainable". Make that sound reasonable, please.

> It's been ~5 years since the first bailout, yet Greece haven't made much progress.

Could it be that the collapse of 25% of Greek GDP under the last 5 years of austerity demonstrates that more austerity isn't the answer? Some economist wise cracked that prescribing austerity for a country in a depression† is like trying to cure a sick patient with regular beatings.

† the worst depression of a modern state since the 1930s, incidentally.

> No wonder Germans get tired bankrolling all of Greece.

Hah, those generous German tax-payers. But wait, aren't they really bailing out German and French banks, at least indirectly, after the ECB gobbled up all that toxic peripheral debt that is was the predictable outcome of wild trade imbalances in an ill-thought-out monetary union? What fraction of Greek bailout money was just recycled into paying back the IMF and ECB? Do you know?

Do you know how loan sharks operate?

Here's an alternate perspective to jar you out of your slumber:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/20/its-time-to-kick-german...

There is zero prospect of Britain joining the Euro; nobody's even talking about that. The possible upcoming referendum is about Britain leaving the EU.

Open Europe has a "Brexit Barometer", http://openeurope.org.uk/today/open-europe-alert/

There was a 2% increase in favour of leaving after the referendum in Greece. It has not been updated since but it will be interesting to see what the changes will be once the populists start trumpeting about the possibility of the UK being ruled by Germany.

That means that England winning the World Cup in 1966 will all have been in vain ;)

Of course, that's why the Greeks so desperately wanted to get out of the Euro, and why new countries have to be added to the Euro by beating them until they join.

Oh wait, no.

Despite all the 'omg the Germans are holding poor pplz hostage!', the Euro has massively lifted the economic prospects of tens if not hundreds of millions of people in a measly 10 or 15 years. Ask the Polish how bad the Euro has been for them, for example. The fact of the matter is - if you want to play, you have to abide by the rules. And I for one am glad that at least the Germans have the spine to say 'this is what we agreed on, no you're not special and we're not going to give you special treatment that we wouldn't give to many other countries that are in much worse shape' (like in Africa or Asia). Ffs, even some of those countries are less corrupt than Greece.

So, just because the Germans have gotten so much flak over the last few weeks, here's another sound: thank you, you guys do what others talk about but fail to uphold. (much like how the US is the only one with enough spine to actually go to war when it's necessary, but that's another topic...)

It has no real bearing, but it does provide us with a view of what is going on behind the scenes in the tunnels of power in Brussels. Remember that Britain is planning on a referendum to stay or leave the EU, not join the Euro. That is highly unlikely to ever happen, and after recent events I think it is absolutely clear that the ECB cannot be trusted not to use the Euro as a weapon of mass economic destruction.

I was a vehement believer in the concept of a united Europe. In some ways I still am, but only with regards to the base concepts of freedom of movement and freedom to work.

I am British and I have taken advantage of the freedom of movement. I have lived in several countries in the EU. I haven't returned to the UK since 2004. That freedom is incredible, and I hope it doesn't change.

The Euro though is a different matter. It is dividing the EU. It is creating the have's and have not's. It is being used as an economic nuclear weapon in order to force the will of one nations economic culture and expectations on to others.

Greece made a mistake back in 2010. At that point they should have embraced the Grexit. They should have crashed and taken all the German and French banks with them. Now the foreign banks have no risk in Greece. The ECB has bought them all out and the ECB and IMF hold the Greek nation by the balls.

If I was Greece I would implore Tsipras to follow Varoufakis' plan. It might not work, but it might just work, and I guarantee that another bail out is not going to change a damn thing, but move the current shit storm into a larger shit storm three years down the line.

because this is a red herring, likely not true, and besides the point: the point is that the 5 years of austerity, privatizations, and privations have ruined the Greek economy, made it impossible to achieve the surplus goals mandated, and basically ensured that there will be no way to exit the debt. further application of the same medicine is stupid, unless you are TRYING to destroy and divide-up Greece, hence the metaphors discussed. A constructive economic policy needs to replace austerity as the Eurogroup medicine for economies like Greece, as we can see that it doesn't work. There is also the issue that you seem to be unaware of how the actual situation has progressed over the last decade, the last 3 Greek governments, the surpluses achieved in a short period of time during attempted reforms, the negative effects of privatization, capital flight, etc. There is also the issue of you thinking that German or other EU taxpayers are being asked to bail out Greece. The ECB run the Greek central banks. Those banks have gotten over 1/3 of all bailout assets for recapitalization goals. Interest earned on Greek money is being held by the ECB. The Greek people didn't need any of this to live. They grow more food than you do in Germany, and the entire economic game was set-up in Benelux, Germany, France, etc, anyway, and the Greek economy was never at their level in the first place, and so a common currency was filled with lots of German Submarine deals etc. Look at your auto industry. I live in Portugal. We don't make any cars here anymore, except so-called-German-ones (VW) or French ones. The profit chain always leads back up north. We are just the dummies making your olive oil. If the Eurogroup wishes to defend their senseless actions, they will of course suggest that you, the bloc taxpayers, are on the hook. If you are smart enough to see through their attempts to divide, you will see that the bloc IS paying for all of this clowning around, all of the time, and that the problem is related to the general European banking sector's relationship with international finance, the ECB & national-bank relations not being linked to any public policy we can meaningfully democratically participate in, wolf-like behavior of groups like the IMF, and I'm sorry to say the Eurogroup, and their economic interests etc...

Greece functioned OK before the euro. They devalued the drachma every now and then to keep themselves competitive. While never the model of operational efficiency, they chugged along before they were saddled with debt in the mid 2000s - debt spent mostly on buying military equipment and other unnecessary stuff FROM GERMANY and other EU countries with Greek decision-makers decisions being "incentivized" to do so. Ordinary people did not see much of this money. And the money spent on bailouts since 2010 was just bailing out private banks and saddling euro taxpayers with the bill.

By the way, Germany is not exactly a stranger to corruption (compared to other northern states in Europe):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Germany

> Why do so few people mention that almost 75 percent of Greek pensioners retire before the age of 61?

According to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retirement

    | Age             | 55-59 | 60-64 | 65-69 | 70+ |
    |-----------------+-------+-------+-------+-----|
    | Germans working |   61% |   23% |    3% |  0% |
    | Greeks working  |   65% |   18% |    4% |  0% |
    | USA working     |   66% |   43% |   20% |  5% |

65% of Greeks age 55-59 are working, while only 61% of Germans are. More Germans age 60-64 are working than Greeks, but slightly more Greeks age up to 69 are working.

> I also believe that we should hear much more about what the country will do to improve productivity and work harder.

Yes, when will the Germans learn to work as hard as citizens of the USA?

The democratic will of the Greek people is that they should have their cake, and eat it. Where is the solidarity amongst their EU counterparts?

> While I am not a big fan of austerity, one can ultimately only spend what you got.

Wrong. You can always print money if you are the sovereign.

I am not sure what "country income situation" you are talking about.

"The Greek budget showed a primary surplus of 1.506 billion euros in the January-May period this year"

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/06/25/greek-budget-prim...

The ones who were asked by Greece to cough up money pretty much agreed with Germany.

France and Italy didn't (at least not in public), because they would also at some point like to have access to taxpayer money from the Northern/Eastern EZ countries.

Every borrower of money has to come to terms with the lender, or there will be no money.

In the EU poorer states get more funding too. One line explanations for a fictive problem are most likely wrong.

Yes, because when California almost went bankrupt in 2012 all they had to do was call Pennsylvania, who then promptly wrote a check for 1/2 of California's GDP, and then said a few years later, when California still hadn't fixed its ridiculous retirement fund shortfalls, 'Nah you know what, you have nice beaches we visit every now and then, let's call it even.'

Oh no wait, they didn't - and the amount of federal funding even New Mexico gets is dwarfed (per GDP) by the deficit the Greeks were trying to roll over - again. How many US states fail to collect 25 to 40% (depending on what you count) of taxes? If there were any, how long do you think other states would keep that state afloat?

I think the system of rebalancing is a small factor, the major factor being a fiscal policy instated by the federal government on state spending...there needs to be a similar central entity in the Eurozone to implement not just momentary policy but also fiscal policy...but we all know this idea is unpopular

Sure, not able to listen and not able to compromise define the Greek side in all this.

Where have you been?

The policies imposed to Greece don't make more sense this time that they did the last time, and the last, and the last. But yes, we should all listen to the wise neoliberal policymakers, including the humble Herr Schäuble.

Unfortunately it is the Eurogroup who are not willing to listen or compromise. The IMF reports (including one leaked today http://news.forexlive.com/!/imf-finally-says-what-they-think...) shows that Varoufakis was right all along and the debt is unsustainable, yet the Eurogroup does not listen and won't consider debt restructuring but wants to continue with the same failed and discredited policies.

And this response shows that you know nothing about economics or finance.

> do something again the blatant corruption, burocratie and tax evasion

Corruption and tax evasion are an economic problem, not a moral one. People decide whether or not to pay taxes based on many factors - convenience, value, habit, punishment, etc... In a 'developing' economy, like Greece, if there's a history of not paying taxes, you need to provide incentive to pay taxes. Because if you all of a sudden raise taxes and enforce it hard, you don't get tax evasion - you get capital flight, which is much, much worse for the economy. And it's all too easy to move around in the Eurozone.

> Stoneage lefties like to discuss, well, preach, all day long while spending other (EU) citizen's money.

Greece did not spend other EU citizen's money. They sold bonds at the market rate to banks and investors that BOUGHT them, and their debt spending was entirely sustainable up to the financial crisis (not sure if you've heard about it) which rocked the whole world. The troika bailed out those banks, with the vast majority of the "EU citizens' money" going to those banks and only a fraction of this money ever made its way to Greece.

> instead of hindering startups, business and innovative people

You know what hinders startups, business, and innovative people? A repressive tax regime. Like the one the troika imposed on Greece...

I disagree vehemently. The austerity and bailouts so far have been a punitive process that has achieved either an undesired effect or the specific goal of: 1) destroying the economy. no growth. no way to achieve the surplus targets mandated. no way to exit debt.

now, it's a set up. that's the premise of his statements in this article. you disagree or character assassinate, either or, but you don't propose an alternative except the tired lines about Greeks spending other peoples money. Go. learn something. come back when you know something about international finance, the Eurogroup, the ECB, the last 5 years of austerity, the last 2 Greek governments, the German Sub deal (anecdotal, not endemic, but representative of the nature of such transactions) and the macro economics of how +-5 million people shall fare over the next 20-50 years. You come across as a jerk, mean-spirited, and ignorant. Your comment was troll bait and more insulting than any of the articles rhetoric. You use the term "leftie" to describe folks of any political persuasion who make take umbrage at the blatant mafia structure at the core of the euro (currency) laid bare over the last weeks. Please DO go study a bit before you show your face around here again. Thanks Aaron

When the financial crisis hit, almost every country on this planet increased public spending and introduced stimulus package after stimulus package in order to help the economy back on its feet.

Greece is in a situation where their economy desperately needs any kind of stimulus. Instead, the rest of Europe decides to make an example of them by forcing them to implement austerity measures that target the masses (and not the tax-evading elite) because that is the fastest way to collect more taxes and cut public spending in a short timeframe (VAT increases, pension cuts). This is the total opposite of what Europe was doing when they were hit by the crisis.

Obviously, the European leadership wasn't happy when someone who understood this and was willing to speak up about it came into power in Greece. Luckily, the media was happy as ever to make this a human interest story and focused on Varoufakis' lifestyle instead of actually looking at what they were trying to achieve and how Greece was in an impossible situation. They've been in power for about 6 months now and are somehow responsible for all the tax evasion, public spending mistakes and, really, anything else Greece gets blamed for.

> Stoneage lefties like to discuss, well, preach, all day long while spending other (EU) citizen's money

What did you find particularly "stoneage" in his ideas?

It's not the first time I notice criticism (a rather empty one) of "left ideas" based on "being old". Isn't it a little non-sensical, to criticize ideas for being old?

I think of myself as a moderate libertarian, so I may not agree with Mr Varoufakis.

But I sure can appreciate him speaking English rather than some bureaucratic newspeak that is the norm among elected (and non-elected) officials.

And I can appreciate that he deeply cares for his people over holding on to his government job.

I will take occasional hyperboles over content-free mambo-jumbo any time.

> Stoneage lefties [...] anarcho-communist-syndicalist grufties

"When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html